Sonicsgate Filmmakers Trolling the Thunder in Denver
by Zorgon on May 2, 2011 12:15 AM CDT
in Oklahoma (Misc)
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The Sonicsgate filmmakers and other former Sonics fans continue to petition the NBA to bring back their team. Recently, they invaded a Howard Schultz book signing, got on local TV to discuss Clay Bennett heading the Kings' relocation committee, and went on Outside the Lines to discuss the Kings' situation.
I'm not too opinionated on this issue. I can see why the Sonics fans were rooting against Oklahoma City and hassling Clay Bennett in the stands, but wanting to do the same thing and rip another team from another city is just hypocritical. You talk about how all of the things Seattle did to try to keep the franchise in your city, and now you just want to create another situation for fans in another city.
Obviously, it seems unfair for me to comment on this issue, especially since I'm reaping the benefits of Seattle losing a team. But as we all know, an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind. And historic franchises should not cite a couple of terrible seasons and use it as an excuse for leaving the city. I wouldn't mind seeing a city like New Orleans or Memphis lose their team, because they can't fill the arena even when they have a winning product. But going for teams like the Bucks, Suns, and Timberwolves? Come on.
But, I might just be splitting hairs. Regardless, I wish the best of luck to Jason Reid and the Sonicsgate team in bringing basketball back to Seattle.
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Yeah, I don't think you got it...
“But going for teams like the Bucks, Suns, and Timberwolves? Come on.”
I think you misunderstand what they’re saying with those logos.
Their point is that Seattle re-location and the shady way it went down with Stern and Bennett has set a dangerous precedent where an NBA team owner can swiftly move a team with no consideration for the fans of the team.
The fans of the Bucks, Suns and Timberwolves should be worried, not because “Seattle is gunning for them”, but because the NBA has demonstrated that their loyal fan support and a strong history is not enough to keep a team if an owner sees a benefit to moving the team (for whatever reason)
by BigGreenMonster on May 2, 2011 12:36 AM CDT reply actions
If that is what he was going for, then I support it.
But if he is supporting the stealing of a team from another city, like Clay Bennett did, then I do not support it.
Tony.psd = Da Man
Manager of Welcome to Loud City
#1 Warriors, Thunder, and Adonal Foyle Fan
Uhhh
I like to root for a team that I admit is “stolen” while saying that it’s wrong for other cities to obtain a team in a similar matter. This is what I like to do.
Swing and a miss
He supports the team, not the “stealing” of the team. I’m really starting to question your reading skills after looking over your comments.
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on May 5, 2011 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Poorly written
“You talk about how all of the things Seattle did to try to keep the franchise in your city, and now you just want to create another situation for fans in another city.”
First of all, that sentence is grammatically incorrect. Second of all, the idea that Seattle’s fans “want to create another situation for fans in another city” is completely false. The NBA and its broken business model is creating this situation by putting a gun to taxpayers’ heads and forcing them to subsidize massive arenas for the NBA to make more profits. If a city’s populace does not subsidize the NBA with their own tax money, the city will face the possibility of relocation. What kind of business is that?
“And historic franchises should not cite a couple of terrible seasons and use it as an excuse for leaving the city.”
Clay Bennett and his ownership team purposely made the end of the Sonics’ tenure excruciatingly painful for the fans by putting together a competitively inferior team. In the Sonics’ final season in Seattle, the team let go of Kurt Russell, Wally Sczerbiak, and Delonte West with no benefit and no compensation. All three players ended up contributing to their new teams in the playoffs. The point is, Bennett and his ownership group cited lack of success and lack of fan support in the final years of the franchise as a reason for moving the team (while at the same time being the ones in charge of its lack of success). By your admission, that reasoning is flawed. But you should be praising that reasoning, because it helped you steal a historic franchise, one with an NBA Championship and 41 years of history. So you, in fact, are the one who is being hypocritical. You mention the Timberwolves as a “historic franchise”? They have about half the history as Seattle, if that.
by PurpleHaze11 on May 2, 2011 1:16 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I probably didn't make my position clear enough....
But, I’ll respond to your comment in order to make it so.
Second of all, the idea that Seattle’s fans "want to create another situation for fans in another city" is completely false. The NBA and its broken business model is creating this situation by putting a gun to taxpayers’ heads and forcing them to subsidize massive arenas for the NBA to make more profits. If a city’s populace does not subsidize the NBA with their own tax money, the city will face the possibility of relocation. What kind of business is that?
By making a grab for another NBA team, I think it’s pretty clear that Seattle fans want to do the same thing to another poor franchise. The video implies it as such.
But you do make a correct statement in saying that the NBA is creating a situation where voters have to give up tax dollars to build a new arena in order to keep a team in their city. It’s a result of owners who are too poor to renovate their own stadiums and run their team, such as George Shinn, who moved the Hornets to New Orleans when Charlotte wouldn’t help out with arena funding. I don’t see it as a revenue problem as much as I see it as a sign of the economic times. Teams are becoming a hard sell these days, with the Nets selling their team to a foreign investor and the Hornets unable to sell their team.
The situation in Seattle was completely different though. Clay Bennett purchased the team, didn’t renovate KeyArena when he clearly had the money to do so, and left town as quickly as possible.
As far as your second statement goes, I completely agree with it on all accounts, except that I think you meant Kurt Thomas, and not the guy who played Snake Plissken in Escape from New York, LOL. I wasn’t stating that Clay Bennett hadn’t stolen the team in that manner, but I was stating that it would be completely wrong to do so again. Two wrongs don’t make a right. That was the only point I was really trying to make.
Tony.psd = Da Man
Manager of Welcome to Loud City
#1 Warriors, Thunder, and Adonal Foyle Fan
LOL
Yeah I meant Kurt Thomas, my bad haha. I am a big fan of Plissken though—sweet movies.
by PurpleHaze11 on May 3, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with your final point
But at the same time, you are reaping the rewards of a shady deal. So it’s not quite fair of you to say it’s wrong for other fans to reap the rewards of another shady deal. I wouldn’t want another city to get their team jacked, but if it does happen, I’m rooting for them to land in Seattle (although the chances are slim to none).
by PurpleHaze11 on May 3, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't lump us all together.
I’m a Sonics fan and I have NO desire to see any other franchise come to Seattle; the NBA has an incredibly poor business model that almost requires local governments pay out hundreds of millions of dollars to build fancy palaces for their basketball teams, just to keep to be able to turn a profit. I for one am glad that Seattle, King County and the State of Washington didn’t fall for Clay Bennett’s $500 million blackmail scheme (right before The Great Recession, to boot), and I believe the city of Seattle is better off without David Stern darkening our doorsteps.
Seattle is the 14-largest media market in the United States, and Commissioner Stern has saw fit to salt the earth so that no basketball fandom shall ever grow there again. I say “Good Riddance” to the NBA…..and the Grizzlies and the Hornets and the Kings and the Suns and the TimberWolves can just rot for all I care.
Obviously
you have said good riddance to the NBA, that’s why you have an account on SBN and post on the blogs right?
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on May 5, 2011 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm a Seahawks and Mariners fan too, genius.
If you want to hear loud…..go to Qwest Field. If you want to visit a SBN site that gets more comments during a lockout than a certain NBA team does during the playoffs, click here.
Been to Qwest
Huge Seahawks fan here actually. Loudest stadium in the league by far. I’ve never really looked at fieldgulls but I’ll check it out. I hear what you mean about this site, I hardly ever visit it. The Kings one on here is incredible though.
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on May 5, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, I meant the Sonicsgate guys.
Tony.psd = Da Man
Manager of Welcome to Loud City
#1 Warriors, Thunder, and Adonal Foyle Fan
We didn't steal shit
Bennett bought the team. Pointing your anger at OKC fans is misguided. You should be upset with Schultz and the City of Seattle.
Also, I’m a Kings fan. Did you happen to notice how much the fans supported the team when things looked bleak instead of not going to games? Lo and behold, the team is staying in Sacramento for at least another year. They didn’t sit around and bitch about the ownership, the city, or anyone else. They made a stand, made their voice heard, and made a huge positive impact on the relocation bid. They also had what you call an inferior team, but it didn’t stop their passion. Take notes.
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on May 2, 2011 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No anger toward OKC fans
I don’t have any anger towards OKC fans except for the ones that try and insult the fans and the city of Seattle for not being “supportive” enough. There is nothing the fans could have done to save the team. It was all in the hands of the owners, the NBA, lawyers, and the city and state politicians who dropped the ball at the most crucial moment. And for the record, I am definitely more angry at Schultz and the city politicians than I am at Bennett. But I can’t say that I don’t have a strong distaste and distrust for Bennett and Stern, especially because they are such good personal friends. Have you ever read the e-mails they sent to each other? It’s sickening.
And dude, please shut up about your fans and how they stood up or whatever. Take notes? Maybe you should take notes on this, motherfucker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp4lAafmZFA:
As a Kings fan, you should be ashamed of trying to insult another city’s team who got stolen. Sonics fans have been very supportive of your effort to keep the team. Watch as you have one more lame duck season and then the franchise moves, unless someone buys the team and funds an arena. There is nothing that YOU, the fan, can do. So shut up, grab some popcorn, and watch the robbery go down.
by PurpleHaze11 on May 3, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're smart.
Calling me a motherfucker and telling me to shut up on the internet? That takes balls.
I’m sorry, but apparently there are things that fans can do to keep their teams. If it weren’t for the fans, what would say the odds are that the Kings wouldn’t have stayed? I know that a lot of it is out of our hands, but to act like the fans can’t have any impact on a team staying or going is just incorrect.
Please tell me how you’ve been supportive of the Kings staying in Sacramento. I know you didn’t donate to Here We Build or ever post once at Sactown Royalty, or email Stern either. Also honestly was your first thought when you heard about it was how wrong it is for them to move, or was it that you hoped they were coming to Seattle?
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on May 4, 2011 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering that the Sonics/Thunder didn't really have any good results since the 2004-05 NW Division Title run,
it was probably time to blow up the team, regardless of who the owner was. KD, Jeff Green, Nick Collison, and the last Sonics draft pick, Russell Westbrook were huge in terms of making some nucleus for the team to go around.
I do disagree with this comment you pointed out:
The NBA and its broken business model is creating this situation by putting a gun to taxpayers’ heads and forcing them to subsidize massive arenas for the NBA to make more profits.
There are a number of arenas that are privately owned, like the Philips Center in Atlanta, TD Garden in Boston (owned by the Bruins), Verizon Center in Washington, and Staples Center in LA. It’s cheaper on a team’s bottom line in the short run if the arena is financed through tax dollars, but it’s not necessary that it has to be a public facility either.
Wow...
they got seats next to Bennett , haha. I’m in support of them getting the Clippers, LA already has 1 team, not too many people will notice.
Loud City via Far East
twitter.com/r_chim_allen
Sterling wants to stay in LA, and he's from LA
The league should not be forcing owners to move if they don’t want to.
They actually were in Denver to support the Kings.
Kind of hard to make the argument that Sonics fans are out to “steal another team” in light of that fact. Might be a good idea to revise your post now.
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2011/4/23/2129394/sonicsgate-supporting-kings-in-denver"
Just because they banged a cowbell a couple of times doesn't mean they were there explicitly in support of the Kings.
They were there mainly to bring attention to their cause and troll the Thunder. I respect the use of cowbells to show that they stand solidly with Kings fans, but if their main cause was to keep the Kings in Denver, they would have worn a bit of purple. Just sayin’.
And the video above makes a pitch for trying to steal another team, at least in my eyes. My post’s accusations are fair given the evidence.
Tony.psd = Da Man
Manager of Welcome to Loud City
#1 Warriors, Thunder, and Adonal Foyle Fan
by Zorgon on May 2, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
They used the Kings front as a cover to look like the good guys. And while I appreciate them stating they were going to support my Kings, what I saw at the game was vastly different than what was promised.
No purple, no Here We Stay signs, nothing signifying the Kings struggle at all. There was nothing that would make anyone look at those fans and say “wow, looks like the Kings have fans here”, only things that would make people say “Jesus, couldn’t those Sonic fans go about this in a much better way?”
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on May 2, 2011 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I dont get it
Do you expect Sonics fans to wear purple and root for the Kings? That’s ridiculous. We are in support of everyone keeping their franchise. However, the NBA has set a precedent that as long as municipalities do not subsidize their arenas, they will move teams. If that is the case and a team is likely to move, we as Seattle fans would like that team. There is nothing that we can do, as fans, to “steal” a team.
And for being someone whose favorite team is likely to get moved by the NBA, you seem very unsympathetic to other franchises that have lost their team. Maybe you will reconsider your attitude when the Anaheim Kings win their next playoff series.
Is that a ridiculous expectation
to think that when fans say they’re going to support a team that they wear that teams colors and not another teams? That was awfully sweet of them to support Sacramento by wearing Sonics jerseys and holding up signs about them. I’ll have to make sure when I go see a game in Sacramento next season that I don’t accidentally wear Kings gear and remember to put on some yellow and green.
I’m not unsympathetic towards Seattle or their fans, you’re just insanely oversensitive. What I am unsympathetic towards is trolls.
Anaheim Kings huh? Shows how closely you “supported” the Kings since you don’t even know it was going to be the Royals. Besides that, they won’t be winning any series’ since the team is staying in Sacramento. Here We Stayed.
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on May 5, 2011 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Its been 3 year move on and shut up!
Go back to drinking and supporting the truly responsible for your problem Starbucks and watching the Seahawks and Mariners.
Youll have basketball again soon enough but shut up or sign up when it comes to the Thunder
Douchey guy with stereotypical insults and terrible grammar
doesn’t get more OKC than that!
I’m just kidding, dude, but the insults you’re slinging at Seattle are petty and unnecessary, although it’s nothing I haven’t heard before. But in any case, it’s pretty “douchey” of you to do.
true that it is Ill admit it
but still truth to it and Ill give you this story to think on and take it how you will.
I have two cousins, grew up in Missouri and was raised on hunting, fishing, and eating meat. People you would call true red blooded Americans then they moved to the Seattle area for a couple years before they move back and how are they now? Dont eat red meat, wish to live in teepees, and complain about cows. They went from real people to a couple of filthy hippies from 2 years of living in that area what does a lifetime living there do to you?
As for grammar mine sucks I know that and am okay with it.
Hey, I get that
I just don’t like all that get in the way of talking about basketball. I don’t have anything against OKC fans as long as they don’t insult us for voicing our opinion. I’d love for you guys to have a team, just not at our expense.
But I do get what you are saying about Seattle. I mean, any large West Coast city you travel too is generally going to be different than the Midwest or the South. You will certainly find more people that are considered to be offbeat, countercultural, liberal, alternative, or whatever you want to call it—hippyish. Believe me, I went to Western Washington University, which is about as “hippyish” as you can get. And hey, I’ve been annoyed with them too, but it’s not like they aren’t entitled to their opinions.
As for your cousins, I have no idea what happened to them. Maybe too much time at WWU? Who knows, but I’ve lived here for 23 years and I love meat, I love fish, and I go bird hunting. The Northwest is the best for outdoors activities so come check it out.
Maybe if they grew up in civilization they wouldn't have been so drastically affected.
I’ve spent a huge majority of my life in Seattle, and I eat red meat and drink booze like anyone else (and I’ve got the gut to prove it). Of course, eating a hamburger and reading a book are not mutually exclusive, so please excuse my exquisite grammar.
Douchey Hipster glasses and neckbeards
doesnt get more Seattle than that
So sayeth country-bumpkin meth-heads who fuck their siblings.
Ignorant stereotypes hurt, don’t they?
I like how
you complain about ignorant stereotypes when just above his comment you are saying MO isn’t civilization and insinuate that you’re more educated because you’ve spent more time in Seattle.
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on May 5, 2011 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
It was implied in your comments that there's some kind of "huge difference" between MO and Seattle.
I’ve never been to Missouri, but being from Seattle I know that it’s an incredibly laid back and polite town; in general we’re not really the type of people to force our opinions on others and make others conform to our way of thinking (although there are plenty of California transplants that match your “hipster” stereotype).
If someone moves to Seattle and becomes a vegetarian hippie in just 2 years, it says a lot about where they came from.
Not from MO
You’re confusing me with the other guy. I actually love the city of Seattle, in fact I’ve always said if I could live anywhere it would be there (mainly just to have Seahawks season tickets). I was just humored by the hypocrisy in your two comments, that’s all.
Kings fan in OKC
by rockrichmond2 on May 5, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
I think what the Sonicsgate guys are trying to make light of the situation, and keep it in the public eye.
It is not there to just harp on Clay Bennett. If you watch the whole movie, there are tons of bad guys in the film.
1. Clay Bennett and his partners:
Why he’s a bad guy: Bennett did not make a full hearted effort to get a new arena (public or private) for the Supersonics and the Storm WNBA team (which was sold to a group of Seattle businesswomen in 2008). This was most evident when outside parties were making efforts to either renovate Key Arena or build a new one, after his first proposal for a Renton Arena.
Why he’s not a bad guy: Oklahoma hosted the Hornets for 2 seasons in the wake of the Katrina situation. Fans in the city got a taste of NBA action and got to see the development of Chris Paul from rookie talent to being on the cusp of being an NBA star. In short, Oklahoma knew Bennett owned an NBA team, they knew the situation in Seattle wasn’t particularly great with the Arena situation, and I can’t blame him for taking advantage of the situation, and giving the Seattle Storm back to the city as a consolation prize. I guess Bennett could be viewed as a bad guy to Oklahomans if the Sonics at least didn’t move there considering the situation in Seattle.
2. Howard Schultz
Why he’s a bad guy: He sold the team to Bennett. He could have waited to sell the teams to a local investor or another group with strong Seattle ties.
Why he’s not a bad guy: The Sonics and Storm had a bad lease.
3. City of Seattle
Why it was bad: The city had a bad lease with the Sonics and Storm, and weren’t willing to renegotiate it. If this was done, that could have provided relief for the teams in the short term, and perhaps something could be done for the long term.
Why it can’t be blamed: Key Arena was remodeled to meet NBA Standards in 1995. Between 1995-2008, about half if not a little more than half of the NBA teams have opened new arenas, which are more state of the art, and it rose the threshold of NBA standards for an arena that way. City also publicly financed the stadiums for the Mariners and Seahawks, on top of what was said already.
4. The NBA
Why it was bad: Allowed this move to happen because an arena was not “NBA ready” just 10 years after it re-opened. Also, Bennett and Stern had a long friendship before, so Stern was willing to take a bullet on this for him as to why an NBA and WNBA team with a strong history could move from a large and affluent metro area to a smaller city where the Sonics at least would be the only major pro sports teams in town (wouldn’t call the Storm a major team).
T-Wolves, historic?
I’ll give you the Bucks and Suns, but the Timberwolves historic? Really? C’mon, son. I think a likely candidate is the Bobcats once MJ’s done running them into the ground.
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