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Bench Green, he'll thank you for it.

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I am glad to see Jeff Green finally making some headlines again. It seems in the last couple months his name hasn't been mentioned without being preceded by  "...impressive young core of Durant, Westbrook, and..."  The D.C. native has shown us flashes of real brilliance and yet, this season, it seems as if there has been something amiss.  His stats are down from last year in almost every category (PPG, RPG, APG, FG%, 3P%).  In fact, the only reason he's on the ballot for the All-Star game was his his impressive 08-09 campaign.  But what happened? I'll get to that in a moment.

With all of the trade buzz humming as we approach the Feb 18 deadline, OKC seems to often come up amidst all the hubbub and the consensus seems clear: the Thunder need a big man. After watching these guys for two seasons now I would agree...in part. Yes there is a massive chasm in the paint where the Thunder is concerned and I honestly can't recall a game that they won the opening tip. However, there has been a surprise this season that I'm not sure Presti or Brooks would even say they saw coming, the emergence of Serge Ibaka.  Sure, his raw potential was obvious and the entire management had high hopes, but this. In the nine games where he has been given 24 minutes or more he has logged averages of  9.2pts 8.7reb 1.4blk (25.6min). Compare these numbers to veteran starting centers like Dalembert, Camby, Haywood, Dampier, and B. Wallace and then remind yourself that Ibaka is a rookie.

All that said, I submit a couple key moves for the Thunder's sustained success:

1.) Trade or acquire a Power Forward. A legit "Power" Forward. This role is currently being filled by the aforementioned Jeff Green. He is playing out of position and is actually doing a decent job considering his skill set and background.  I recommend a horse like David Lee. Whoever it is, they need to be a young player with a nice inside game who has good basketball IQ to play with this team. Enter David Lee (Bosh is too expensive and they don't need him). I think Presti should find a way to make this happen.

2.)Bring Jeff Green in off the Bench. Make no mistake, he's a gamer and a key to the Thunder's success but he would do much better and probably be more productive coming off the bench as the sixth man and Durant's relief.  I think he would fit perfectly as the "Lamar Odom factor." He can bring energy, athleticism, and a mismatch off the bench when used in his true position at SF.

3.) Start Serge Ibaka at Center. Despite being slightly undersized at 6'10" his athleticism and 7'4" wingspan seems to make up for it. I've made the case for him above and at the halfway point in the season, I think it's time to give this kid a shot. He deserves it. Nenad will get over it.

Based on my formula going forward the line-up would ideally look something like this:

PG: Westbrook/ Maynor

SG: Sefolosha/ Harden

SF: Durant/ Green

PF: Lee/ Collison/ White

C: Ibaka/ Krstic

I think this crew, if healthy, would make a run at any team in the association in a 7 game series.  And if nothing else, at least Stella will get his groove back... I mean Jeff.

This post does not reflect the views of the staff of Welcome to Loud City or SB Nation. However, it was made by one of the members of the Welcome to Loud City community, so there is a large chance the above post is extremely ballin'!

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Good stuff

Mobile rec !

How the hell did that happen? I am Trailblazer fan to the core but I love me some OKC THunder!!! Must be the Hometown pride I feel.

I'll Say it now so you guys can know I'm a true follower: "In Pioli I Trust"
Go Chiefs!!!!!

by bouzi on Jan 19, 2010 12:54 AM CST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

I have high hopes...

I agree that Ibaka will be our center of the future. I believe Ibaka’s ceiling is something near an Amare/D-Howard hybrid.

Personally, I feel the Thunder should try to develop Mullens in the mold of Nowitski. If that is possible (and that is a big IF) Mullens could shoot over defenders (especially if Mullens develops Dirk back-to-basket spin shot or fade away shot). Mullens can pretty much already duplicate Krstic’s pick and pop game (soon to make Krstic obsolete).

I have a strong feeling that Presti will still seek to pick up a starting quality PF with this draft. Just in case my Mullens theory doesn’t work out (plus to give him time to develop). Since we have too many assests/picks as it stands, I can really see Presti packaging Weaver/White/Thomas/Harpering and at least #1 pick to get at top 6 pick.

Once that PF is aquired, I see Green becoming our sixth man.

Your friendly neighborhood Loud City resident.

by daddydai on Jan 19, 2010 12:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I’m not so sure Ibaka will ever crack the realms of Amare and D-Howard simply because they have such good B-ball IQ. This game is still new to Ibaka, but I really believe he can consistently be a 14pts/ 11reb/ 2blk kind of guy for the Thunder. Maybe along the lines of Horford, Nene, Okafor type.

And as for Mullens…to be honest I haven’t been real high on this guy…ever. I think he is the second coming of Robert Swift and was not ready for NBA style play. He went from second stringer at Ohio to being drafted in the first round. I know Sam Presti got him for a reason but I just haven’t been too impressed. Obviously it would be amazing for him to one day wake up and blossom into Dirk Nowitzki, but i don’t think it’s in the cards for good ole Byron.

by scottland10 on Jan 19, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wishful thinking I know...

As I’ve mentioned before, I think Ibaka compares favorably to a young Dwight. The once major difference that I can see is that Ibaka actually seems to have an mid-range game. Your basketball IQ statement has brought up one of the things that I have never understood about Ibaka. I keep hearing that Ibaka came from a basketball playing family, so I didn’t understand why his game is raw. I just found the answer

SERGE IBAKA WAS BORN on Sept. 18, 1989, to basketball-playing parents in the city of Brazzaville, the capital of the Republic of Congo and home to nearly 1.5 million Africans situated along the Congo River.

It was not an easy place to grow up.

The third youngest of 18 children, Ibaka was forced to leave his hometown around the age of 8 at the start of the Second Congo War, also known as Africa’s World War. A bloody civil war that was chronicled throughout the world, more than five million people died as a result of that conflict and aftermath.

Raised by relatives during the civil war, Ibaka returned home three years later. It was then that he started to pursue his love of basketball. Ibaka’s father, a member of the country’s national team, introduced his son to the game.

Organized basketball in Congo was scarce.

Ibaka learned the game mostly on the streets, where courts were speckled with holes and divots and the children played in plastic sneakers; Nike, adidas or Reebok weren’t options.

But Ibaka’s raw talents could not be suppressed.

The same article opens this way…

He just learned how to drive, recently settled into a place he will call home, started English classes and obtained his Social Security Number. And lest we forget, he’s here to play basketball for a living.

So obviously he is constantly adjusting. I can’t wait until he final gets settled in his game and environment.

Mullens on the other hand is already much better than Robert Swift. I agree Mullens still has a ton to learn, but he was drafted by Presti and ranked #1 coming out of high school for a reason. Based on his height, athleticism, and nice soft touch I can see his game evolving. He just needs time and good coaching, which the Thunder can provide.

Your friendly neighborhood Loud City resident.

by daddydai on Jan 19, 2010 5:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just in case I didn’t make myself clear. I think Mullens could become our starting PF if he can develop his game.

I also think Presti will take the cap space to sign a veteran SG/PG and PF/C cheap to add depth just in case of injuries.

Your friendly neighborhood Loud City resident.

by daddydai on Jan 19, 2010 1:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of Lamar....

I was thinking Durant needs to study some Odom films to improve his ball security. Odom has a good ball control for a big man.

Your friendly neighborhood Loud City resident.

by daddydai on Jan 19, 2010 1:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

True

They really do both have freakish length for their position but I actually think Durant is already ahead of Odom in handles. I just think he makes poor decisions and could really learn a lot from Odom in that respect. He probably needs to even watch a guy like LeBron to really see how a 6-9" forward drives and feeds.

by scottland10 on Jan 19, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we don't want to do

anything that’s gonna add to our cap space this year or next. why? the slight possibility we could make a run at signing….chris paul. seriously though, let’s see what we have in the tournament before we even consider breaking up our core. im also strongly considering starting a loud city jeff green fan club, unless somebody else wants to do it. hint hint

by gratis1920 on Jan 19, 2010 1:42 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't think we should make a run at Paul...

If that is even possible. I’m not sure if any teams do this… but can’t we try to build a team first culture? Maybe KD could settle for 11MM so we will have a little extra to re-sign Harden, Westbrook, and Green without breaking the budget? Perhaps a no trade clause or incentives could be used to intice the players?

Perhaps this has already started? Remember OKC just extended Sefolosha’s contract on the cheap. He will not even earn over 4 million for the length of his contract.

Your friendly neighborhood Loud City resident.

by daddydai on Jan 19, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

KD should and will get his max deal just like in SA Duncan got his and the rest took a little less to stay with him. I agree we dont need a big name FA like seems to be the rage in talking about Bosh who i dont see as a team first guy anyway. I would rather we keep what we have maybe trade off Collison or Kristic and bring in a Haywood, Scola depending on what we do in the draft and which role we need in terms of scoring or blocks. Scola brings toughness, post moves and rebounding while Haywood less skilled offensively but can rebound and block 2 shots a game while defending any center. I wouldnt give Haywood more than 2 or 3 years on a deal, Scola is an RFA so he might be hard to pry away depending on what Houston is doing (ie if they trade McGrady for contracts that go beyond this year).

by mleetch352 on Jan 19, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Concerning KD's contract, I can see it either way...

He could easily shave a couple million off the top since he has other endorsements, but I could also see other players taking less as you mentioned. Either way he deserves every bit he gets.

Your friendly neighborhood Loud City resident.

by daddydai on Jan 19, 2010 5:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Scola is nice too...

I like that he is used to a fast paced offense and he can get garbage points down low like no other. I see him and Lee as very similar players and we should go after whichever would be cheaper. Lee currently makes 7mil while Scola get 9.5mil. Both will likely want 10.5 to 11.

by scottland10 on Jan 19, 2010 5:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

KD should settle for nothing less than

what he is worth. Is the team going to pay him a little more when he gets older to reward him for his loyalty? No way. Loyalty like that is for suckers. It sounds nice but this being a business works both ways. Now when he is Grant Hill’s age and chasing one more title, then sure, he would probably be willing to take a pay cut. Not right now though. Not when your the best player on the hottest young team in the league. I wouldn’t expect Russ or Uncle Jeff to take less either. This is what they have worked and played so hard for. Loyalty is not rewarded so that should never be a factor in negotiating a new contract.

by NSU Stud on Jan 20, 2010 8:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would love to get CP3...

…but that’s probably going to take a max deal and I don’t think they could afford it and keep Durant and Westbrook. I think there is a lot to be said for a team not bringing in huge names (ie Lakers, Magic) and just growing the talent like Detroit ’04 and San Antonio ’03 ’05 ’07. Team chemistry is so huge and if a GM can find a way to get good young players, and then keep them together for a decent stretch. Great things can result. Anyone remember the Chicago Bulls

by scottland10 on Jan 19, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Gratis, I’ll be your first Green fan club member.

by scottland10 on Jan 19, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

awesome post man...i agree with this totally

and also KD is donating 100k to Haiti, another great selfless act by the future MVP..if he is willing to donate to a great cause like that then why not shave some of that huge salary we will offer to keep the core together?? just a thought and i feel like he is the kind of guy to do it..

by #35isurdaddy on Jan 19, 2010 9:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks #35, I actually tend to agree with mleetch that Durant needs to get a max deal because he has most definitely earned it. It’s guys like Westbrook, Green, Thabo, Harden, and Ibaka who should be willing to take a small cut in order to play with a player of Durant’s caliber and maybe free up enough space to bring in one more piece.

by scottland10 on Jan 19, 2010 10:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

let’s also not forget that the luxury tax doesnt start until 70 million so dont run a benefit for Bennett yet. My point is more that we dont need to spend 20 mil on bosh, especially if we feel that KD is a superstar and Russ is on the way to becoming one. This team either needs Green and Harden to take the next step or add a very good 3rd option type player because we have the role players we need in guys like Maynor, Ibaka, Thabo. Adding a Scola adds an offensive dimension we dont have and that is a player w legit post moves and a more consistent rebounding presence. Adding a Haywood would add a consistent shot blocking presence and rebounding.

In many ways i agree with the premise of this original post because i dont think Jeff is truly a 4 man but better in the role of a 3, probably even in the form of playing the 6th man role. Where i disagree with this post is with the idea of starting Serge at the 5 and when i say that i mean this year. The reason i say that is because i think in a starting role against the best front court players in the league he would end up in quick foul trouble where he doesnt when he comes in and gains experience and confidence with the 2nd unit. I think he could start maybe the beginning of next season either at the 4 or the 5.

To the idea of going after a legit power forward i agree, but i dont think David Lee is necessarily that guy. I live in NY and see the Knicks a lot and I feel David has improved tremendously over prior years, especially with his jumper and his defensive effort. That said he does much of his damage by using his quickness against centers that i am not sure translates against power forwards as we saw he struggled against the quickness and athleticism of our guys in the frontcourt.

I have an idea that is a little off the wall and hadnt even thought about it before just now. What about Antawn Jamison? He is a legit 4 man who can score inside or out, creates matchup problems for the opponents, and while he is paid a lot it is only for 2 more years so it doesnt hurt us long term once all our young guys get paid. Now for the part that wont be liked around here i presume.

Antawn Jamison, Haywood and Was. #1 for Green, Collison, Etan’s contract, White our lower #1. I love Jeff Green and what he brings as much as anyone here, but this deal would make take this team from playoff hopefuls to potential contenders even this year. Starting Russ, Thabo, KD, Antawn and Brendan is a legit lineup and makes our bench ridiculous with Maynor, Harden, Ibaka and Nenad. This would also allow the team to see if Haywood who is an impending FA fits and should be resigned. This move would also allow Jeff to get more opportunities to let his own game flourish and send him back home to DC where if they dump Arenas they could be big players in the free agent market this summer while being competitive around Foye, Butler and Jeff this year and letting players like McGee, White develop. The only worry which i have with an trade idea with this team is what trading Jeff away does for the chemistry of this team. Trading away Green and Collison also offsets most of Jamison’s contract next year, with White i think it costs 1 mil more.

If legit 4 is not what you think we need then it is a legit 5 man and we all know that few of those exist anymore, especially that teams would trade. Kaman is the best offensive one that might be available but he misses a fair amount of games every year. Biedrins is an excellent rebounder and shot blocker, but also misses a lot of time. I would love to add Marc Gasol or Noah but i dont see either being traded.

by mleetch352 on Jan 20, 2010 12:44 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

so you're saying...

Something like this?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzvuw3b

I agree with a lot of this option. I like the idea of getting a real center, especially from a team that is willing to give one away. No disrespect to Nenad, but he is really a 2nd or 3rd string center (behind Serge).

You are 100% right though in your assertion that the management must be extremely careful with this team’s chemistry. The 2004 US Olympic team is a shining example of a team jam packed with talent and no team concept. That said, I also don’t think that Durant and Green are the Bobbsey Twins and have to remain connected forever. I think the glue that really holds this team together is their character. Presti has been extremely careful in picking guys that will be good locker room guys, good citizens, and will buy into the program going on in OKC. Jamison is clearly a stand-up guy in the community and he’s got a big game so I like that move. Another positive for this trade would be that Collison’s having a pretty decent year and we’d probably get a good value for him based on his performance as of late. Really though, this would boil down to whether or not the Wizards are ready to rebuild. If not, they’ll say no because this would really hurt the rest of their season.

by scottland10 on Jan 20, 2010 10:35 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yes, that exact package though it cant show the draft picks obviously, but it does project an additional 11 wins out of the deal, which is crazy. As for the wiz, if the wiz dump arenas and try to go FA they are by definition rebuilding and with the rumors of dealing Jamison to the Cavs in a package with Z’s expiring deal i would think a young player with upside like Jeff would be great value and on our end we could net a top 5 pick (Whiteside, Turner, Favors, Davis as possibles). In terms of the rest of the wiz season i think as bad as the East is they are 6 back of anyone not named chicago who is in 8th, so while it is possible to make a run at the playoffs i dont see it happening.

I agree that the character of each of the individuals on this team has been the key to the chemistry of the overall team, but in some sense i also think that “shared experiences” in terms of age and the like has helped the players who are growing up together in many respects to form a bond with one another. If it is based mainly on the character than a deal like this shouldnt be a problem at all as Jamison has been a pillar of character in the nba which is a testament to him considering some of the completely dysfunctional teams he has played on in GS and Was. I also have tremendous trust and belief in KD as an individual and a leader to handle this kind of move and take the team forward. As for rotations.

Haywood-Nenad
Jamison-Ibaka
Durant-Jamison can play 3 as well or Thabo backup 3
Thabo-Harden
RW0-Maynor

by mleetch352 on Jan 20, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

pretty nice lineup

Although the Haywood/ Krstic slot would probably still be our biggest weakness. Hopefully the draft can also help us shore up some of the gaps.

by scottland10 on Jan 20, 2010 2:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It hurts my heart

when people talk about trading Uncle Jeff. I know it’s a business, but come on. We have picks and expiring contracts we can trade.

That being said, I wouldn’t be opposed to him coming off the bench if we have obtain a better option at the 4. I’ve noticed him playing with the 2nd team guys and they play pretty well together.

by ElectricPencils on Jan 20, 2010 3:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

i dont want to trade jeff at all but in order to get real value u have to trade real value. Jeff even coming off the bench will never become what he could become as a player here because say he basically backs up KD, KD still plays 40 min a night. You make him the backup 4 as well and he gets maybe 30 min total a game. Yes he could be more of the offensive focal point on the second unit, but isnt that a lot of the reason we bring Harden off the bench, I just dont see how the rotation works to fully get out of Jeff what he could get out of his talent elsewhere.

sure maybe Washington would give up Jamison for and Haywood for Collison, White, Harps expiring and Etan’s expiring to basically dump all the money and completely rebuild but i doubt it and then i see even less room for Jeff if we get a legit 4 man.

by mleetch352 on Jan 20, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

There really isn’t a need for a major trade. Even though Green would make good trade bait, I don’t see Presti pulling the trigger on such a trade.

Presti seems to look for youth, value, character, and someone to exploit. Jamison and Haywood would be nice, but I don’t think they would fit into OKC’s long-term plans.

Your friendly neighborhood Loud City resident.

by daddydai on Jan 20, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Especially when we are talking about...

making a major move for 2 thirty year-olds.

Your friendly neighborhood Loud City resident.

by daddydai on Jan 20, 2010 4:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i dont disagree that there isnt a major need for a trade, but a move like this is a move you make if you want to contend this year, if not you stay put.

by mleetch352 on Jan 20, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you!

I’ve been waiting for someone to bring up the possibility of the Thunder acquiring David Lee. Lee has improved every year he’s been in this league, and at 26, he’s made himself a potential all-star. He’s of power forward height but can play center, he’s a true blue grinder and one of the best rebounders in the league, and he’s developed his 15 foot jump shot nicely.

I would say “nothing against Jeff Green, but,” but really, I do have something against Jeff Green. He’s an undersized power forward who misses too many shots and doesn’t get enough rebounds. Easily the most overhyped player on the Thunder. I’m tired of reading articles that say “The Thunder’s three young stars, Durant, Westbrook, and Green…”. Since when has Jeff Green (let alone Westbrook, but I see way more upside here) been a star? Certainly he’d be a solid energy sixth man, but Jeff Green has no place in the starting line-up of a championship team, which is what the Thunder could be if they insert David Lee at power forward. They have the money to do it, and David Lee is definitely looking around, as the Knicks will probably be unable to keep him in the off season.

As for Ibaka, I agree, with reservations. The kid’s only 20 years old, very athletic, and there’s enormous upside there. But let’s wait and see. Like you said, at 6’ 10", he’s an undersized center, and the presence of a proper 7 footer banging it out with the Bynums, Howards, and Odens (yes, I said it, dude had a 23+ PER this year until he went down… if he can stay healthy… scary…) of this league is a huge boon to any team.

by hstevens on Jan 21, 2010 8:39 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

"Contending"

Also, enough of this business about contending. The Thunder are a young team who few thought would have a winning record this year, much less make the playoffs. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves by forgetting Presti’s encouraging long term development strategy, throwing it away on a Jamison and getting knocked out in the second round. This team can be the real deal if they continue to develop in the way they have (David Lee is an important piece in this puzzle.).

In any case, I’d prefer seeing Jamison over in Cleveland. With his help I think they could make a real run this year.

by hstevens on Jan 21, 2010 9:45 AM CST reply actions   0 recs


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