Etan Thomas Trade -- Quick Thoughts
So now that we've acquired Etan Thomas (and two second round picks) for Damien Wilkins and Chucky Atkins ... where do we stand?
To sum up this trade:
- I'm pretty sure we're not going to miss Wilkins or Atkins
- This wasn't a rip off blockbuster move -- it's a salary dump move
- This won't end our search for another interior-inclined PF or C -- in fact, Thomas just isn't very good
Etan Thomas is a pretty solid pickup -- and much more useful for the OKC Thunder than for the Timberwolves. For the Wolves, they get a nice salary dump and pick up a useful piece of their own in Atkins and a useless piece in Wilkins. Of course, I'm pretty sure that Wilkins is equally useless (a can't shoot, not-so-great defending, ball-handling deficient guard) for all the other teams out there so it's probably more of a "take our junk if you want us to take on Etan's salary" move and Atkins, while useful, was basically going to be stuck behind our much better options already riding the bench. With Westbrook and Livingston (and whomever else) manning the point, and Harden, Thabo, and Weaver at the 2-guard, Atkins wasn't going to see the light of day. Did I mention that Wilkins can't shoot?
In return we helped to add somewhat useful (I use this word quite loosely here), cheap (in terms of long-term impact -- his current salary is ridiculous) depth in an area of greater need. The 2008 DraftExpress scouting report for our new PF/C (emphasis/bold is mine):
Overview: Thomas is a very efficient two-way player with the versatility to play both power forward and center. Though undersized, he is extremely aggressive and uses his powerful frame to back his man down, throw his elbows and shoulders around, and create space to get his shot off. Defensively, Thomas uses the same type of physical, frenetic, style to intimidate his opposition. He’s an excellent rebounder on both ends of the floor. Was forced to sit out the 07-08 season with a heart problem, but is scheduled to return in 08-09.
Offense: Thomas is effective in the post, using simple hook shots to score around the basket most often. He doesn’t have incredible footwork and is almost completely lacking any use of a jump-shot, but he is extremely effective at using his body to create space and has good finishing ability once he’s free for the score. Thomas is a strong player in the team offense as well. He uses basket cuts, pick-and-rolls, and offensive rebounds to get his points. Very intelligent on the court, usually makes the right read and understands his role, even if he’s a bit turnover prone. He gets to the free throw line at a decent rate, but shoots a very poor percentage once there.
Defense: Thomas is a harassing style of defender, a long, strong and athletic big man who aggressively bodies up on his man in the post or presses up on him when facing up. He’s not afraid to give the hard foul and he keeps active with his help defense. Thomas is a pretty solid weak-side shot-blocker and is solid on the defensive glass. Isn’t as comfortable when pulled out onto the perimeter, but gets away with a lot of body contact on drives, so he’s good at keeping face-up forwards shooting instead of driving. He’s slightly undersized for an NBA center.
Wow that sounds great -- it's too bad that it's a tad outdated. Take a quick look around and you'll realize that, as noted earlier, our brand new PF/C just isn't very good anymore (and he was only just a servicable backup before ... so what does that make him now?). The fact that the Wizards didn't get the point and continued running Etan out there ahead of their little stable of centers (most notably JaVale McGee) is not the point. The point is that he's always played like a backup C but was getting paid like a starter -- which was okay when he was a high-energy defender and a good attitude, team oriented guy on and off the court. And then he had an operation, got injured, and somehow ended up as a lot worse of a player. I bid you go over to Bullets Forever and read the pretty sound writeup of said Etan Thomas, vastly overpaid PF/C. In particular, I point out this succinct summary of just exactly what we're picking up here:
The measurables in Etan’s season are staggeringly bad. Once an excellent rebounder, Etan’s rebound percentage was over three percentage points below his career average. The Wizards were 12 points worse with him on the court—eight on offense and four on defense. His true shooting percentage fell six percentage points off his last healthy season’s mark. He turned the ball over on nearly 20 of his possessions. I can go on.
But it was more than just measurables here. Watching him, the guy just looked done and overmatched. It wasn’t for a lack of effort; he was as "active" as ever on the glass and certainly fought hard to finish putbacks. He just couldn’t do it anymore. It became common in that first month of the season for the other team to go on huge runs when he was in the game. The buzz for JaVale McGee was only eclipsed on this site by the frustration of Eddie Jordan running Etan out there again and again, desperately hoping he still had something to give. Unfortunately, he didn’t.
And, reiterating what's been mentioned above, if you were worried about Chandler's toe problems ... Etan Thomas isn't exactly in tip-top physical shape. He had open-heart surgery and followed that up with a torn knee ligament last year. The good thing is, we don't have a JaVale McGee sitting around ready to come off the bench and get some real action in. Nor do we have Brendan Haywood or Andray Blatche. We have a Krstic. And Collison. Given our alternative options, Etan isn't such a bad stopgap. It helps that the $7.35 million he's owed is limited in that this is the final year of his contract -- leaving us NOT on the hook for continued payment of that ridiculous salary after this year. Mind you, Etan was supposedly starting to improve again slightly near the end of the season, but given how little anyone saw of him it means very little. If nothing else, we get 2 more second round picks to fiddle with in the draft next year and go out and find another replacement for the backup C role. Or find a real center.
Now, if this makes a Collison move more possible, then that's yet another piece to consider (with regard to trade fallout/impact). So, what are your thoughts on the matter?
This post does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of Welcome to Loud City or SB Nation. However, it was made by one of the members of the Welcome to Loud City community, so there is a large chance the above post is extremely ballin'!
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eh...
when the guy was healthy he was a starter for the Wiz and he was a decent defender/rebounder. Not gonna completely close off the paint but he could alter shots and was active on the boards. That type of attitude is what we need from Mullens/Ibaka as they are the future at the center position.
Picking up 2 2nd round picks and dumping Wilkens and Atkins is nice as well.
Overall a good move, frees up cap space, gets us some future 2’s, and he can be used as a trade chip at the deadline if he is producing and is healthy. Some playoff team will be looking to add a backup PF/C player that plays defense/rebounds.
My thoughts
are on the other post about this subject. I like the move. As you stated, if nothing else its two more picks to wheel and deal with or as a last resort, use on some sap heading for the D-League.
I think the REAL value of this trade will come in the locker room. Even if his body is unable, Thomas has always been an extremely hard worker. You can never have enough butt-busters on your roster. And that sort of thing definitely rubs off on others. Especially on young players. Hopefully.
ok lets not go nuts about him as a locker room influence. he and brendan haywood were in at least two fights that i know of in the locker room for washington. not saying it was etan’s fault but fist fights with teammates is not exactly what i would attribute to great locker room influences.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 27, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
lol...i actually like that
the guy will go as far as to fight someone to get minutes….in some sick way i see that as a positive thing….
and im not blaming haywood and i dont know what the fights were over but we can pretend they were over his laziness….another positive thing….
think positive….always….as an okie and more importantly a Sooners fan, you look to always look for the positive….now let the choke bashing begin
exactly
the only dumb person was in minnesota….at the VERY least we got rid of two guys who dont even deserve to be in the NBA let alone on this promising young team….atkins for age and wilkins just cause he sucks…
mleetch352 and manifestus seem to always be looking at and pointing out the negative side of things, to keep us grounded i guess.
I have nothing against a two for one trade of useless pieces
For a slightly less potentially useless piece and two draft picks. If this draft taught us anything at all, it’s that two second rounders could come in really handy when the next DeJuan Blair falls like a rock in the upcoming draft.
I balance out my negativity with the bubbles of optimism surrounding the team =P
there is a difference between seeing the negative and seeing what a player actually does not the romancing of each move.
why is minnesota dumb because they wanted to save 3 million dollars?
by Michael Gleich on Jul 28, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
stop being so negative manifestus…thomas is here now so he will be great, maybe not Desanga Diop but great.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 28, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha ...
The sarcasm aside, I’m not that negative — I actually like the move because he adds a lot more for us than for other teams, and the Wolves much like the Wizards actually have some depth in centers, whereas we do not. I’ll be content if he contributes even an inkling more than Petro, Sene, Swift …
i dont agree; why they are dumb
I wouldn’t say Minnesota has depth at Center. Not talented depth at Center anyways. Washington yes. That’s the ONLY thing Washington has that I’m jealous of.
And I don’t think 3 million dollars is worth two 2 round draft picks for a team still lacking in so many areas. And if that weren’t reason enough, you need only look at this year’s draft. Three point guards in one draft. I don’t think that is smart for any team. I know they were trying to use at least one of them to trade and it backfired, but still not smart.
I didn’t mean anything bad by the negative comment either. I actually like it on some level. It’s far better than a few folks who are overly optimistic.
Why they aren't dumb
Minnesota already has another 3 first round picks in the 2009 draft. Their own, Utah’s and Charlottes. After having three first round picks this year, is their really room on their roster for 3 more second round picks?
Before this trade they had Jefferson, Love, Songaila, Pecherov, Cardinal and Thomas to play the 4/5. Along with Gomes who plays the 4. Thomas was never going to play.
They only drafted 2 point guards, they traded a pick to the Nuggets and then the Nuggets selected Ty Lawson. The bounty of that trade was Charlotte’s 1st round pick in the 2010 draft.
Thomas is utterly useless, he wasn’t going to make an impact on the Wolves, and may be a big body for the Thunder, but is just another example of the neglect Presti has given the PF and C positions. Krstic, Mullens, Collison and Green is not going to get it done. I like Westbrook, but you can’t tell me this team wouldn’t be better with either Lopez or Love instead.
I'm not a big fan of Love at the cost of Westbrook
But in hindsight, Lopez would have obviously been the superior fit for the team. And I agree with basically everything else you said — in short, this move outlines exactly how bad our interior 4/5 depth is. When a lottery team discard is going to be your backup big … ouch.
please dont tell me
you just said that etan thomas is better than collison.
We could argue that Lopez could be a better fit for this team, but then you have a huge hole at the point so then you would be complaining about the whole at the point instead. This team is building, not a contender at this point. Next summer they have presumably 2 more lotto picks and plenty of money to spend.
Love is not a better fit than Westbrook
by Michael Gleich on Jul 30, 2009 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say Etan was going to be better than Collison
But I figure the move was in part to have Collison spend more time as the backup 4 behind Green, thus … well now you’re just making me more irritated with Etan.
And as far as Brook is concerned — exactly. At the time everyone was worried about how Brook’s game would translate. And really, if everyone could draft with hindsight, there’d be a lot of changes. Starting with us not having Durant.
well “When a lottery team discard is going to be your backup big … ouch.” would imply he is better then collison since nick is a backup big on this team.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 31, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
With 96 minutes available at the 4 and 5
And Green getting 36 that still leaves 60 minutes for Collison, Mullens, Thomas and Krstic. That is not a good situation.
by the way
Mullens is not really part of that equation I don’t think. Ibaka is going to eat into those minutes before Mullens I would think, and neither of them are going to be demanding anything over 10 mpg if that.
Green-35mpg
Collison-25mpg
Krstic-25mpg
Thomas-10mpg
And with the combination of Green spending some of those minutes at SF and Thomas possibly not even getting THAT many minutes, that would be about all the minutes Ibaka or Mullens could possibly expect to see. And again, I think its an either/or with Ibaka and Mullens as I can’t see both of them getting minutes at the same time much less in the same game.
Lopez yes, Love no.
Emerald City Funk Machine
by blackvanilla on Jul 31, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions
OK....
Like I said if you consider depth in warm bodies alone, then sure, Minnesota has loads of depth. Let’s not kid ourselves. Love and Jefferson are both Power Forwards, the later being forced to play Center for lack of a better option.
Songaila? Pecherov? Cardinal? I would take Etan Thomas over everyone of those guys. Granted I don’t catch many Minny games, but those guys are garbage. So you still haven’t convinced me that they had/have depth at any position.
As far as Krstic, Mullens, Collison, and Green, Krstic and Collison are very productive, quality back ups. Green will be, and to some degree already is, a very good player and developing Power Forward. Mullens you can say what you want about. I hated the pick. So our only real flaw, aside from youth, is a true starting caliber Center. Something you don’t have in Minny either. You are right about Love though, it is a very close toss up between him and Green. Love is a beast on the boards and strong inside where Green is a much better offensive player. I think the coin flip has to go to Green though since we already had a banger like Love in Collison. So I can see why he was passed over.
Of course looking back, AFTER this year’s draft as well, Lopez would have been the better pick. Not because Westbrook has disappointed, but because there were plenty of Point Guards in this year’s draft to be had. Most notably Ricky Rubio, who may not have wanted to play here anymore than he wants to play in Minnesota.
Finally, we have 5 draft picks in next years draft as well now. Do we somehow have more roster spots then Minnesota? No. If anything, Minnesota needed the picks more than us. They have 8 contracts expiring after next season at this moment. Kevin Love and Corey Brewer are the only two I can imagine them having any interest in resigning. So that leaves 6 rosters spots. 3 first rounders and 3 second would have helped. Don’t act like they don’t have need for the picks. If you want to say they were just doing it for salary fine, I’ll buy that. Just don’t act like you don’t need the picks.
P.S.-The third PG was Nick Calathes. He went to play ball in Europe I believe, but they still have his rights as far as I know.
I agree that the rest of the roster I cited and you cited is garbage. My point was that having so many players at the 4-5 created a roster imbalance at the 2 and 3 and acquiring a player like Wilkins as an emergency player in case of injuries is not a bad move.
I’ve stated this is previous posts here, but Green is just not a PF. He is a SF playing out of position because Durant is all world. Green doesn’t score inside and doesn’t rebound, two essential requirements of a PF. He also doesn’t have the body to defend PF’s. I think Green is a good prospect, and a decent player, but pinning the hopes for the future as him developing as a 4 I think is a stretch. He will be a good trade asset none the less. As far as calling Green a better offensive player than Love is debatable, and accounting for age and experience, it isn’t even close.
For instance both players TS% was nearly identical Love .538 Green .536. Per 36 minutes Green scored 16.2 points to Love’s 15.8. Even their FT% was .788 vs. .789. The difference is Love was playing as a 20 year old in his first year whereas Green was in his 2nd year as a 22 year old. Comparing Love’s 1st year to Green’s 1st year is a sizable advantage for Love. Love rebound rate is double that of Green though.
The problem I have with the Thunder’s strategy isn’t that Westbrook isn’t a nice player, it was that if Presti is this supposed Genius, he should have been aware that the 2009 draft was Guard heavy in 2008. Why? Because if you look back at the drafts of the last 20 years, PF’s and C’s taken outside the Top 5 have an extremely high failure rate. If Durant continues to grow his game, 2009 may be the last draft the Thunder have a high lottery choice in many years. Trying to fill both the 4 and 5 through Free Agency and Trades is difficult because you usually end up extremely overpaying. Just look at what Gortat and Charlie V got in Free Agency. If the Thunder improve to 35 Wins this season and begin picking outside the Top 10, I just don’t see where they are going to get the Post Players they need to contend, especially with extensions for Durant and Green looming on the Horizon and taking away the cap space that hasn’t been used. This seems to me a major impediment to the Thunder going for young potential to championship contender and I don’t see how it’s going to change.
by Ebomb on Jul 31, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
ok I'll buy most of that
and I never said I wouldn’t like having Love. But to Green’s defense you made the point already. Green had played SF up until his first year in the NBA, Love had always been a PF and even played C i believe. So in the first year the only difference was 4 rebounds a game. Everything else was essentially the same. And I think age is overrated. I mean sure you want them better younger but in the end it doesn’t matter when they reach their peak, it only matters who peaks higher. If you have to be a year or two older but you peak higher so be it. Green also gives up 25lbs to Love. We have all said the only way he will grow into the PF we need him to be would be if he fills out that frame and gets stronger. He increased his rebound total by 2. That’s not huge numbers, but in only his second year at the position I would say it is a large improvement, again Love has been banging down low his whole life. So all I’m saying is don’t ever hype Love to make a point and don’t sell Green short either. A;so I would have to say Green was on a far worse team his rookie year than Love was last year.
And I think Green was taken with the idea that they could play Durant at the 2. I think there are some who still believe that, myself included, but it didn’t work over the short test period and we have Harden now, so oh well. As a result we had not choice but to move Green to the 4. He will fill out, and I think with another off-season focused on playing PF, he will improve and be just fine. I mean think about what it would mean to make Love start playing SF this year. I’m sure his point total might go up and his rebounding would go down. I mean its all about experience, or lack there of in this case.
Also I would call it neglect...
Just all in due time. From everything I’ve heard, next year’s draft is supposed to be full of bigs like this year’s was full of guards. Patience my friend. If your a Minnesota fan as your post suggests, you will need to become very familiar with that word. You should be already.
by your own argument they were going to waste the draft picks anyway so might as well save the 3 mil…lol.
Minnesota if they really want to has a center overseas they could bring over Nikola Pekovic. What they have also done if their GM is smart but i dont think he is watching him be interviewed a few times is take on expiring salary and break it into two smaller ones that could be packaged with other salaries to make other trades, so it adds flexibility.
also lets not overstate who etan thomas is and act as if he is some sort of great depth player. 3.3 million dollars for 2 2nd round picks is a lot considering you can buy a 1st round for 3 million. Hopefully with a moron like Kahn running the Wolves they will end up with a top 5 worst record and we basically get the equivalent to another late first.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 30, 2009 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
never said
Thomas was great. Just said he is better than Wilkins and Atkins for this roster. He will put in 10 min or so a game and then we will wave farewell. Don’t overstate my statements. Sir.
um....
so obvious that they made this move to help out financially in the pursuits of a Durant extension.
both Atkins and Wilkins could be contributing a lot more to teams with minutes needed for veteran players….OKC is hellbent on starting all their young talent and in the process developing them much quicker than most of their fellow draft classmates.
"minds sharpens minds, like steel sharpens steel"
wtf
all 3 contracts in this deal expire after this year, so check some facts before you claim to know why it was done. wilkins and atkins didnt even play last year.
by Michael Gleich on Jul 31, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I have no idea...
all 3 players had expiring contracts
fallout move
Ryan Hollins was signed to an offer sheet by the T-Wolves today so now they used some of the 3.3 million saved to replace Thomas who is just as effective. makes the move more intelligent from their perspective and we still got what we wanted in the picks.

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