BDTS: Pre-Draft Combine Numbers (Harden, DeRozan, Evans, Hill, Curry)
The pre-draft combine numbers are in, and while the scouts and general managers are poring over the data, we'll take a quick look ourselves at some of the "eye catchers". Now it should be noted that the pre-draft combine numbers don't necessarily doom a guy, nor do they project a "can't miss" prospect. However, the numbers do help give an idea for the general athleticism of certain prospects, and obviously that will factor into draft day decisions.
We'll break everything down on a prospect-by-prospect basis, and I'll attempt to explain whether or not the numbers hurt or helped their cause. Why not start with the guys that the Thunder have been looking at...
*****James Harden*****
Height: 6' 4" Height in Shoes: 6' 5.25" Weight: 222
Wingspan: 6' 10.75" Standing Reach: 8' 7.5" Body Fat: 10.1%
Stand Vertical: 31.5" Max Vertical: 37.0" Bench Press: 17 reps
Lane Agility: 11.10 sec. 3/4 Court Sprint: 3.13 sec.
As Chad Ford said, "(Harden) proved to be a pretty impressive athlete". This was surprising to everyone because the knock on him was that he wasn't a great athlete. All of his athletic testing numbers were better than the average for shooting guards historically at the combine. His standing reach and wingspan were a bit longer than the average SG as well, with his height about average, and his weight just above average.
The two numbers that really caught my eyes were the sprint and the bench press. His sprint time was the 8th best at the combine, and much better than other "supposedly more athletic" shooting guard prospects. I had no idea that Harden was a speedster. His bench press reps are quite impressive as well, as it indicates that he has quite a bit of strength. I imagine that this is part of the reason why he manages to score a lot, because he can muscle into the lane, along with doing a lot of other things well.
It took me awhile to go back through the historical pre-draft combine numbers to find a player relatively comparable, but in 2001, Jason Richardson put up numbers relatively similar. He had above average vertical numbers, a real good sprint score, but only an average agility score. Both did about 15 reps on the bench press, and all of their measurables are relatively similar...For more prospects, read the rest of the article!
We'll make a note of it right off the top that Hasheem Thabeet didn't go through the athletic testing, and Rubio's numbers aren't available because he didn't participate (I believe).
*****DeMar DeRozan*****
Height: 6' 5.5" Height in Shoes: 6' 6.5" Weight: 211
Wingspan: 6' 9" Standing Reach: 8' 6.5" Body Fat: 4.9%
Stand Vertical: 29.0" Max Vertical: 38.5" Bench Press: 5 reps
Lane Agility: 11.88 sec. 3/4 Court Sprint: 3.31 sec.
DeRozan had shockingly poor numbers in the agility and sprint tests for a guy who is supposed to be a "raw athlete" who plays above the rim. Harden scored better than DeRozan in the standing vertical, and had a longer wingspan and standing reach, despite being about an inch and a half shorter.
The agility and sprint scores for DeRozan were below the average for shooting guard prospects. Given that DeRozan's status in the top-10 hinges on his athletic ability, one has to suspect that he might fall down a few draft boards, especially since he is coming out as a freshman. Also, one has to be concerned about his defense when his agility score is much worse than Harden, especially with Harden being considered the smarter player.
*****Tyreke Evans*****
Height: 6' 4" Height in Shoes: 6' 5.25" Weight: 221
Wingspan: 6' 11.25" Standing Reach: 8' 8" Body Fat: 7.1%
Stand Vertical: 28.5" Max Vertical: 34.0" Bench Press: 7 reps
Lane Agility: 11.81 sec. 3/4 Court Sprint: 3.17 sec.
Evans had a similarly atrocious lane agility score like DeRozan, although it's even worse when you consider that Evans is supposed to be a PG/SG. His sprint score was great, and this suggests he has great straight-line speed, but lacks the fluidity and quickness to move side-to-side. His vertical numbers are about average for a PG and a little below average for a SG. However, Evans has great size and a phenomenal wingspan and standing reach.
I think, like DeRozan, Evans may lack the agility to be a great defender especially in his first few years, as he is also entering the draft as a freshman. These two SG prospects may struggle to make the jump to the NBA initially, if not totally, at least on the defensive end. Still, considering the numbers between Evans and DeRozan, two guys who are considered to be relatively similar prospects, Evans helped himself by possibly jumping DeRozan in the draft order.
*****Jordan Hill*****
Height: 6' 9.25" Height in Shoes: 6' 10.25" Weight: 232
Wingspan: 7' 1.5" Standing Reach: 9' 0" Body Fat: 6.0%
Stand Vertical: 31.0" Max Vertical: 35.0" Bench Press: 11 reps
Lane Agility: 12.23 sec. 3/4 Court Sprint: 3.30 sec.
Jordan Hill had average numbers for a PF for height, weight, wingspan and standing reach. His vertical numbers are a little above average, and the sprint number is about average. The numbers that caught my eye were the bench press and the lane agility. Average bench press reps for a PF are 13.0, so Hill is a little below average as far as strength goes. Add to that that his lane agility score was way below average (in fact, the worst at the combine), and I could see him getting posted up and beat to the basket a lot. Of course, everyone says that Hill is a hard worker and he'll fight for rebounds despite not being the flashiest guy on the court, but the Thunder already have someone like that - Nick Collison. Bad lane agility scores don't necessarily doom big prospects (see: Brook Lopez). In fact, Al Jefferson of Minnesota posted a lane agility score of 13.08 (not very good) with only 3 bench press reps. So it's hard to fault Hill for the numbers I picked on, but still, there's nothing there to indicate that he deserves to be selected with the 3rd pick.
*****Stephen Curry*****
Height: 6' 2" Height in Shoes: 6' 3.25" Weight: 181
Wingspan: 6' 3.5" Standing Reach: 8' 1" Body Fat: 5.7%
Stand Vertical: 29.5" Max Vertical: 35.5" Bench Press: 10 reps
Lane Agility: 11.07 sec. 3/4 Court Sprint: 3.28 sec.
Curry just put up average numbers for a point guard. Nothing more, nothing less. It's hard to find much of anything to pick on. He wasn't near the top in any of the measurables, but he wasn't in the basement on any of them either. He did put up 10 bench press reps, 2 over the average for a PG, which is not something I was expecting him to do. Also, his wingspan is a bit under the average for a PG, which was also mildly surprising, given that he's a couple inches taller than the typical PG. No wow-factor here that would suggest much of a fluctuation in the draft order.
With that, I'll simply run down a few of my later-in-the-draft "diamonds in the rough"...
*****Jodie Meeks*****
Height: 6' 3" Height in Shoes: 6' 4" Weight: 211
Wingspan: 6' 4.5" Standing Reach: 8' 2" Body Fat: 8.0%
Stand Vertical: 28.5" Max Vertical: 37.0" Bench Press: 14 reps
Lane Agility: 10.96 sec. 3/4 Court Sprint: 3.10 sec.
Projected to be the 44th pick (mid 2nd round) by DraftExpress, Meeks put up some numbers at the combine that would merit him consideration in the 1st round, especially given his scoring prowess. While he is slightly shorter than the height for a SG, and has a slightly shorter wingspan and standing reach than a SG, his other numbers are extremely impressive. While Meeks didn't jump out of the gym, he still posted one of the best max vertical jump numbers at the combine. He did better on the bench press than the average shooting guard by a few reps. But the most impressive numbers are his sprint and agility. His sprint score was tied for 3rd best at the combine, and his agility score was in the top third or so (slightly better than Ty Lawson, even!). A couple of the things dragging Meeks down were questions about his athleticism and his ability to defend at the next level. He has certainly answered the athleticism skeptics, and I would suspect that his agility will allow him to stay in front of people at the next level, and make up for some mistakes. Say what you will about his lack of ability to win at Kentucky, but I think Meeks has a bright future in the NBA, even if it's as a solid role player who logs 15 minutes a game, or so.
*****Darren Collison*****
Height: 6' 0.25" Height in Shoes: 6' 1.5" Weight: 166
Wingspan: 6' 3" Standing Reach: 8' 0.5" Body Fat: 5.7%
Stand Vertical: 30.5" Max Vertical: 33.5" Bench Press: 9 reps
Lane Agility: 10.45 sec. 3/4 Court Sprint: 3.10 sec.
Projected to be the 27th pick (late 1st round) by DraftExpress, Collison put up some numbers that should help his cause. He had the 2nd best agility score, behind only McClinton who edged him by 0.01 seconds. He also tied for the 3rd best sprint score, meaning that Collison had the best combination of agility and speed of anyone at the combine. Despite his small frame (6 foot and barely 160 pounds), he managed 9 bench press reps which is pretty impressive for any PG prospect, much less an undersized one. Collison's numbers and size actually match up pretty well with Speedy Claxton, a guy who was drafted 20th in 2000. Claxton went on to be pretty much a career backup (and still is) but is still somewhat effective when played. DraftExpress says Collison looks like "an awesome backup point guard" - but what more can you expect at the end of the 1st round?
*****Damion James*****
Height: 6' 6.25" Height in Shoes: 6' 7.5" Weight: 224
Wingspan: 7' 0.75" Standing Reach: 8' 10" Body Fat: 8.2%
Stand Vertical: 30.0" Max Vertical: 37.0" Bench Press: 14 reps
Lane Agility: 11.23 sec. 3/4 Court Sprint: 3.09 sec.
You might be shocked to learn that Damion James, a forward, ran a 3.09 3/4 court sprint, which wound up being the 2nd fastest time at the combine. Talk about a super athletic swingman. He would probably play SF with the potential to slide over to the PF position at times (like he did at Texas) in small lineups. His agility score is rather average, but the rest of his numbers are all very good. He helped himself a lot at the combine. His numbers are actually pretty similar to Ronnie Brewer's, but Brewer had better vertical numbers. I know that the Thunder have Durant, who will eat up a lot of minutes at SF. However, James could develop into a nice swingman or role player, and late in the draft if you can find a talent like James, you take him.
*****Rodrigue Beaubois*****
Height: 6' 1.25" Height in Shoes: 6' 2.25" Weight: 182
Wingspan: 6' 9.75" Standing Reach: 8' 4" Body Fat: 7.9%
Stand Vertical: 29.5" Max Vertical: 39.0" Bench Press: 3 reps
Lane Agility: 10.49 sec. 3/4 Court Sprint: 3.15 sec.
If you subtracted the name and just took a look at the stats, you might expect this guy would be going in the top half of the 1st round. DraftExpress has him projected to go 39th (top 2nd round). In case you're unfamiliar with him, he's a French PG who is more of a raw talent than anything. His stat line isn't terribly impressive, but he has the skills, he just needs to develop them. He's agile and speedy, and his vertical leap was the 2nd highest in the combine (shocking!). I wouldn't mind seeing the Thunder take a flier on him.
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26 comments
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Comments
We’ll make a note of it right off the top that Hasheem Thabeet didn’t go through the athletic testing, and Rubio’s numbers aren’t available because he didn’t participate (I believe).
Correct. Hasheem chickened out, and Rubio was still in Spain.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
by daddydai on Jun 4, 2009 6:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This actually worries me quite a bit. If Thabeet was as good as people think he could be, the combine could have pushed his stock up. Makes me feel like he’s content with just being a top 5 pick.
I’m starting to sour a bit on Thabeet right now.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 4, 2009 6:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he knows that both Memphis or OKC will take him
2 or 3, and so what’s the point of doing a workout and blowing it so bad that he falls to the 10 spot?
by LantermanC on Jun 4, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly! I’m not thrilled about a guy who isn’t confident in his abilities.
…I do understand the business side of it as well, but I want a player who is confident enough in his abilities to participate.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 4, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but if he's already guaranteed to be the 2nd or 3rd pick,
and is happy with going to either team because of playing time, why bother working out? He won’t be the number one pick. It’s like if you had a 50/50 shot at either 5 million dollars or 7 million dollars, and I said, if you try and prove your ability, you have a 20% shot of ensuring 7 million a 20% chance of getting 5 million, and a 60% shot of getting 3 million dollars (sliding past the 3 pick).
It doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not confident in his ability to play basketball but rather his ability to put up good numbers in a combine format, which is understandable when you look at the numbers of tall guys. Who wants to see a 7’4" guy fail to life 185 lbs once?
by LantermanC on Jun 4, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's still a problem for me
I understand the point being that if he is locked in to 2 or 3 from a business side you dont risk it, but if you are going to be a franchise player you need to have the drive to go out and prove it and not be complacent cause you like where you are. I mean based on that logic there was no reason for Blake to show up at all.
by mleetch352 on Jun 4, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said I do understand it from a personal business standpoint, but Leech summed up pretty much exactly the way I feel about it.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 4, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not true.
Blake Griffin is the number one pick no matter what. If he rips his calf muscle, or has a 25 inch vertical (which is unrealistic) he’s still the number one pick. So there’s no upside and no risk. Which means given no upside or downside, he’d rather do the workouts than not do the workouts solely for competition’s sake. The same MAY be true for Thabeet, but we don’t know because he had a lot of downside associated with the possibility of a bad workout.
by LantermanC on Jun 4, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see stock rising...
in Hansbrough. He is not as strong or explosive as Griffin, but very comparable otherwise. I can see him sneaking into the lottery.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
by daddydai on Jun 4, 2009 6:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
About a month ago I think Ridiculous Upside had OKC taking Hansbrough at #25 overall, and if I remember right, I was pretty happy with that while others were scoffing at it. Did he really impress so much to go from being a questionable guy at 25 to a potential lottery pick?
…and why didn’t Thabeet participate in the combine again?
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 4, 2009 6:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to detract from another great...
Post by DoD, but man I thought it was a pain in the ass doing 1 player cutout for a graphic, and this one has five!!!
On the bright side Ive honed my cutout skills to a point where it’s no longer super difficult and ends up looking pretty good each time.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 4, 2009 7:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
…err I guess I meant 4 *new cutout because I got lazy and recycled the Harden cutout.lol
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 4, 2009 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two Stories From Today
Hoopsworld is talking about DeRozan to OKC, but i think since he is considering in large space to be the athletic player with the developing game his average athletic results at the combine will hurt him. Also Harden’s well above expected results combined with his past performance should lock him in at this point.
Other news on Ibaka: “Serge Ibaka will play at two summer leagues with the Oklahoma City Thunder. TuBasket.com” its a translation obviously but good to see that they will be looking at him first hand this summer to see how much he has progressed and maybe we will get a better idea of when he is coming
by mleetch352 on Jun 4, 2009 9:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I've been high on Jordan Hill, but his combine sucked.
I am also high on Collison and I’m glad that he did well. A guy as big as Jordan Hill should be able to lift 185 pounds more than 11 times. Shoot, I can do it at least 5 times and I’m only 145 pounds (and not a lifter, I ran XC in college).
I knew Harden would test well at the combine, despite being labeled as ‘athletically challenged’. The same things were said about Farmar and he tested really high in the bench and I believe 2nd or 3rd in the vertical jump. Even so, you don’t see either player beat guys on fast breaks that often, nor do they ever put up a highlight real dunk (in fact both rarely dunk it, especially considering how easy it should be for either of them).
by LantermanC on Jun 4, 2009 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind,
my love for Jordan Hill is back.
Watching him against UW, I knew that he was a hustler when it comes to rebounds, and that he could outmuscle/finesse his way against guys like Brockman. But I forgot his has a good 15 foot jumper, great touch around the basket, and apparently can move like a SF at times.
He still needs to gain 10 lbs, but I watch him and think ‘athlete’. Even if the combine numbers don’t show it.
Speaking of Brockman, I wonder what he could do for the bench. 30 reps? I wonder what Shaq, Malone, and Dwight Howard could do in their primes?
by LantermanC on Jun 4, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
James Harden
It sounds like Harden could be a good fit for the Thunder. I think the Thunder need a good big man or a shooter. Either one and they will pick up some more wins next season. I can tell you that I went to the game when Shaq came to town and it was awful how they defended him (I know, it’s Shaq). I think I would opt for a shooter at this point in the game if they can’t get Blake Griffin somehow without breaking up our big three.
This is my first post of many. IT FEELS GOOD TO NOT BE A LURKER ANYMORE. LOL
You've just been blogged by the Ebony Marshal!
by EbonyMarshal on Jun 4, 2009 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for joining the site Emarsh!
I’m liking Harden more and more each day. If they grab Harden and can snag Gortat off the market, I believe this will be a 40 win team next year.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 4, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha..... well there you go P
Your master plan for world domination (OK… Thunder blogging domination), by calling out the lurkers, is nearly complete.
[insert maniacal laughing]
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
by iverson2169 on Jun 5, 2009 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may not have inspired a lot of the lurkers to come out of the woodwork, but it definitely did for some, and I appreciate that and everyone else who is getting involved in the site lately. Just when I was starting to lose motivation on this blog, the people came out and started to become really active here for the first time, and its been completely inspiring for me to continue to push out content. Of course 4D and DoD have helped a lot too in that department.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 5, 2009 5:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the site E-bone
I already liked the idea of a shooter like Harden…. After the combine, I’m even more convinced.
Bring Your Game, Leave Your Name.
by iverson2169 on Jun 5, 2009 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 5, 2009 5:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Harden is a great fit at 3 for OKC
The two main concerns were his tendency to disappear at times during games and his lack of athleticism. However his combine numbers show that he is more than athletic enough to play and more importantly guard the 2. And while he had a rough postseason this past year I still think he is attractive to the Thunder because he fills a need at the 2 guard spot and his shooting and passing ability fit well with Thabo who is a defensive stopper at the 2 for OKC already. I think he is the most NBA ready and while his ceiling may not be as high as players such as Evans, DeRozan, or Thabeet he is a much safer pick and I think the Thunder are looking to make some strides as an organization pretty soon as opposed to taking projects who may not fully develop before KD’s contract runs up. Needless to say keeping Durant is priority #1 for the organization and while I think when at #3 you would like to find a superstar, whoever OKC selects there is going to be at best a 2nd option behind KD and more than likely a 3rd option behind KD and RW0. Just my opinion though
by KidDelicious35 on Jun 4, 2009 12:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Welcome to the site KD35!
I have heard complaints about him disappearing in games as well and I start to think about KD, RW0, and Uncle Jeff and I’m not that bothered by it. He’ll have the time to learn when to pick his spots late in games around our other great scoters. Plus if he trails off for awhile while one of those other guys shoulders the load, the defense might pull off him a bit focusing on bigger threats leaving him open for catch and shoot situations on the perimeter which he excels at.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 4, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I misread the title. I thought you meant Harden can play at 3.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
by daddydai on Jun 4, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which would be odd
for a guy to post someone other than KD would be a great fit at the 3, when his name is KidDelicious35 huh? LMAO
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 4, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

















































