2009 NBA Draft Coverage: Building A Thunder Draft Board
Whenever a draft comes around, fans all become "armchair GMs" and claim to know which prospect is a better fit for certain organizations. Of course, the actual process that organizations go through is a grueling ordeal involving lots of scouting, workouts, interviews, and debating. All of that is geared towards developing the all important draft board - the manual that no team can head into the draft without.
There are many competing draft philosophies, but they all revolve around making a list of eligible players and ranking them in some sort of order. One such philosophy is the oft-maligned "best player available" theory, which suggests that the drafting team should draft the highest ranked player remaining on their board. The theory goes that the team will be able to stockpile the best talent that they can, and if they wind up with too many players at a certain position, they have the ability to trade. A team that has employed this method is the Atlanta Hawks, according to Chad Ford, who had Marvin Williams rated as #1 on their board in 2005, allowing them to take Williams over the likes of Chris Paul and Deron Williams, despite having a need for a point guard.
According to Ford, many other teams employ a tiered philosophy. In this system, the team still ranks prospects in order. However, it is based on the ability to separate the prospects into groups where there are clear drop-offs in either talent or risk/reward balance. Often there are only 1 to 3 players in the "sure fire" top tier, and then there is a clear division that emerges. More on building a draft board after the jump!
As Ford points out in his article, it's very hard for teams to come to a consensus on their rankings, much less tiers:
"I fight with my scouts constantly," one prominent GM told me. "Everyone has their own ideas, their own preferences, their own methodology. There really is no consensus and, I hate to say it, I'm not sure there's even any real right or wrong."
However, the "tier method" could potentially have some value, especially if there is considerable disagreement amongst people in the organization on a few prospects. While there may be heated debate on which prospect is better, the people will often come to an agreement that both of the prospects have similar potential to make an impact on a team. To solve the argument, the tier system also employs team need.
For instance, let's just throw out three current NBA players that have a big impact on their teams: Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James. Howard is a PF, Bryant is a SG and LeBron is a SF. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that they were all up for draft, and they were all ranked in the Thunder's "Tier 1". I think you could probably rank the Thunder's positional needs as follows: SG, C, PF, PG, SF. Based on this, the Thunder would rank the prospects in Tier 1 as follows: Bryant, Howard and then LeBron. Chad Ford says that many teams who employ the tier system have enjoyed a fair amount of success, and it really makes sense, because they are addressing needs while drafting just about the best talent available.
Furthermore, the team will always take a player from a higher tier if they are still available, even if there is a player at a position of need available in a lower tier. For instance, using the above example, let's say the Thunder were drafting 5th and that LeBron was still available. Since they had LeBron in their Tier 1 (elite talent) they would take him even though they might have a player that addresses a need in their Tier 2.
I think that it makes a whole lot of sense. So, with that, I'm going to go ahead and throw together my own draft board for the Thunder based on this concept. I'm assuming the Thunder would make shooting guard the priority position, followed by center, power forward, point guard, and small forward.
Tier One
1. Blake Griffin - PF
Simply put, Blake Griffin is in a class by himself. I'm sure any team would love to get their hands on him. I don't see any other prospect that everyone is sure about, and that teams think could make as much of an impact. According to Blake's agent, every single team told him that he'd be the #1 pick if they were drafting in that position. That's why Blake is in Tier One by himself.
Tier Two
2. James Harden - SG
3. Hasheem Thabeet - C
4. Ricky Rubio - PG
These three players seem to be the "best of the rest". Most teams would take any of these three guys in a heartbeat. After them, the talent pool remains relatively strong, but the prospects are less "sure-fire". Most scouts and teams that I've heard quoted, as well as draft experts, agree that Harden, Thabeet, and Rubio will all have big impacts in the NBA. James Harden gets the edge in this tier for the Thunder because he fits the position of most need. Hasheem Thabeet comes in a close second, while Ricky Rubio slides down to 4, despite many people thinking he has superstar potential. I'm sure the Kings are really hoping that this is how the Thunder's draft board looks, because that means that Rubio would likely fall to them (with Griffin to the Clippers and Thabeet to the Grizzlies).
Tier Three
5. Tyreke Evans - SG
6. Jordan Hill - PF
7. Stephen Curry - PG
8. Jonny Flynn - PG
9. Jrue Holiday - PG
These five guys have an extraordinary amount of talent, but they have some question marks, moreso than the top four players on my board. Tyreke Evans and Jordan Hill will be fighting bad combine marks in certain drills. Stephen Curry is widely viewed as a role player who will be a spot-up sharp shooter in the NBA, but will be limited by his sleight frame. Jrue Holiday has the opposite problem, the lack of a developed jumpshot and some limitations on his ball handling skills. Jonny Flynn, meanwhile, is mainly knocked for being small and undersized, and needing to add strength. At times he can try to do too much. However, despite all of these skepticisms and criticisms, all of these guys have the potential to have a big impact on a team for a long time, which is why they all fit in the top 10.
Tier Four
10. Gerald Henderson - SG
11. DeMar DeRozan - SG
12. B.J. Mullens - C
13. James Johnson - PF
14. Tyler Hansbrough - PF
15. Jeff Teague - PG
16. Eric Maynor - PG
17. Brandon Jennings - PG
18. Earl Clark - SF
19. Austin Daye - SF
These guys have quite a few more question marks, but they also have the ability to become stars. It's really a needle in a haystack here. One or two of these guys will be great NBA players. Which ones is difficult to tell. I know I might draw some criticisms in this section of my board. Henderson at 10? Well Henderson did okay in his workouts, and he's a very polished player (similar to Harden, just with less consistency and creativity). He is an excellent perimeter defender and has a high basketball IQ. He doesn't drill the trey, but still gets it at about a 34% clip, which is certainly better than DeMar DeRozan's three point rate of 17%. Also, DeRozan is green, hasn't had much experience, and is a raw talent. He graded out poorly in a number of drills at the combine. I would have actually put him lower, but to adhere to the tier system, he was at a position of need. People may also be wondering why I have Jennings so low, the lowest PG in this tier. He showed some immaturity in skipping college to go play ball in Europe and is now trash talking Ricky Rubio. It's almost like he's asking to be a huge bust. Not to mention the fact that he makes poor decisions at times and is an average shooter at best. Teague is a combo guard with a lean to the point which is why he got the edge out of the point guards. I actually think Eric Maynor could be a steal in the middle rounds. Everyone thinks he got away with playing in a bad conference, but he's a solid player and put up big numbers even against the "big boys" in the NCAA tournament.
Tier Five
20. Chase Budinger - SG
21. Terrence Williams - SG
22. Toney Douglas - SG
23. Wayne Ellington - SG
24. DeJuan Blair - PF
25. Jeff Pendergraph - PF
26. DeMarre Carroll - PF
27. Derrick Brown - PF
28. Ty Lawson - PG
29. Darren Collison - PG
30. Patrick Mills - PG
31. Sam Young - SF
32. DaJuan Summers - SF
I think all of these guys could be role players or deep bench players in the NBA and any of them could probably make an impact on the Thunder in the next few years. I can almost guarantee you there will be one star or solid starter out of this group (there usually is out of the last 10-15 first round players every year). Chase Budinger had a ridiculously great vertical leap at the combine and he's a pretty good scorer. I think he'll shoot up some draft boards and it's not all that surprising to see him at 20. Terrence Williams has the talent and the range to succeed in the NBA, along with the athleticism, just something doesn't quite seem to add up with him. Toney Douglas is a 6'2" shooting guard who thrives on slashing to the rim and getting fouled, but he's a scoring machine and he is an excellent on-ball defender. He's undersized for an NBA shooting guard, which is why he might not even go until the early second round, but I like him a lot. Ellington sneaks into this tier as a pure shooter and smooth athlete, but not a great defender. Some of you may be saying, "Blair at 24??? Is he crazy??". This might have been the case before Blair's knees got red flagged. According to Chad Ford, NBA scouts and GMs have called the medical results anything from alarming to devastating.
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Of course, if the Thunder were to draft a shooting guard at #3 (James Harden), the priority for another shooting guard would fall with Kyle Weaver and Thabo Sefolosha on the roster, one of them likely to be in the shooting guard rotation. So, later in the draft you might see the shooting guards fall down in a tier. Of course, if the Thunder wind up with a big man like Thabeet, then the shooting guards would be a priority later on.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind a pair of teammates (Harden and Pendergraph), but we shall see how it all shakes out. I know we've re-hashed a million times what to do with the third pick, but with this tier system bringing out a few of the later round prospects, who do you think the Thunder should take with the 25th pick? I've created a poll below with all of the players I have listed in my Tier Five.
Additionally, it's possible the Thunder don't employ a tiered strategy at all. There's really no way of telling. Sam Presti keeps his cards pretty close to the vest. But, I hope I've introduced the concept of a tiered draft strategy and why it would be beneficial. If I were a GM, this is the strategy that I would use personally, as it seems to make more sense than simply drafting the best player available.
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Nice Explanation...
of how teams go about building a draft board. I wonder how close your board is to Sam Presti’s.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 16, 2009 5:21 AM CDT reply actions
well done
Great work, my only gripe with the way you broke down the board would that once you drop below tier 3 the way you have ranked assumes that positional need makes all the players equal and i think the point would be more that if they were equal then you go with need first.
Specifically about the rankings of actual players i would slide a couple players up a from tier 5 to 4 and some down, specifically lawson, t-will and blair even though i dont personally think he will be that good up and daye cause of his utter lack of strength and probably ty hansborough down.
That said if any of the 3 i was sliding up were there at 25 i would take them.
The only other thing i see is that your board is completely devoid of any of the international prospects at the end of round 1: Casspi, Calathes, Jerebko. That might be on purpose i do not know.
The best thing i think your board illustrates here and maybe it is says more about this draft is the players i would want to fall to 25 are the same ones i would look to draft if we moved up to 15. James Johnson, Eric Maynor, Ty Lawson, Terrence Williams, except maybe Casspi who i would take at 25 but maybe not 15. I just dont see this team taking a Buddinger or an Ellington because I expect them to go with Harden up top.
Interesting rumor this morning of Kevin Love going to Memphis for the 2 pick which would let Minnesota take presumably rubio according to the rumor. Personally if I was Minnesota I wouldnt rule out thabeet there because it would allow Jefferson to move to the power forward and with there later picks at 6 and 18 get a good pt guard prospect and wing player. That said they could take Rubio and Jordan Hill at 2 and 6.
For Memphis they get an established 4 in Love and would have a solid starting 5.
If this kind of deal was open to the Thunder I wonder if the people here would consider dealing the 3 pick for a Kevin Love.
NO looking to sell pick
the 21 pick has some very intriguing players that could still be on the board there and for basically 3 million bucks you get a mid first round player and considering how low our payroll is they can afford it.
If we did that and the Detroit deal i could dream about a draft that nets us Harden, James Johnson and Maynor at 3, 15, 21. This team would be very deep if we could add those 3 to what we already have. add in a gortat or bourousis and this team is easily 10-12 deep. This would allow Thabo to play some 3 sort of like Bowen did for SA while Maynor ran the point and Westbrook got some time at the 2 while Durant and Harden get blows. Johnson’s strength is our current weakness inside post scoring and when you do 18 reps at the combine you have good strength without the height or knee concerns of a Blair. The only knocks on him are his jumper can be inconsistent and he is old for a sophomore at 22.
Kristic-Gortat-Collison
Green-Johnson-White
Durant
Harden-Thabo-Weaver
Westbrook-Maynor-Livingston
Was thinking the same thing
Wrote my response & went back to previous comments & you said about the same thing, oops. Minnesota is doing the same thing & their new GM wants to make a big splash but I’ll say Presti with 3 picks in the 1st rd is just scary (in a good way). This is such a deep draft for PG’s, we could grab a stud to pair up with Westbrook at #25 so he can play off guard too. Hope this dream comes true, Presti with that much leverage & NE Patriots like strategies…I would like that a great deal.
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That'd be a great trade...
for the Wolves. If they could pull it off of course. In my opinion the Grizzlies should want more for the pick than just Love. Especially with the free agent 4’s out there this summer (boozer, lee, varejao, villanueva, frye, marion, odom, rasheed, drew gooden and even c. wilcox). Yet, Love would be a cheap and valuable contract.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
Hmm...
It didn’t put the link to www.nbadraft.net
by ElectricPencils on Jun 16, 2009 7:18 AM CDT reply actions
If Ty Lawson falls that far...
and OKC picks him, god help us all. Thatwould be a miraculous pick up at 21.
Quick Question
I am currently trying to piece together a mock draft (which is pointless, because I am pretty sure the Grizzlies are going to trade the pick before you, screwing everything up) Assuming Griffin and Rubio are off the board, who do the Thunder select at 3? I currently have Harden, who I think would share ballhandling duties with Westbrook perfectly. As for this pick, assuming they do go with Harden… As for the next pick, I would go with either Sam Young or Chase Budinger
Check out nickandroll.blogspot.com
The poll above is a good place to start.
I wouldn’t get both Budinger and Harden. I do like Young, but it really depends who is available.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
Pretty strong turnout on the vote...
Looks like DeJaun Blair has a sizable lead over Ty Lawson.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 16, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel the knee business...
is blown out of proportion by teams hoping his draft stock will fall.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
Okay
Blair is a beast. I don’t know if he’s the best player at that pick, but he’s got toughness.
by ElectricPencils on Jun 16, 2009 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
If they go with Harden at #3
I’d think they’d take a big with the later pick. Or maybe just the best player on the board for depth.
by ElectricPencils on Jun 16, 2009 10:41 AM CDT reply actions
Is OKC at that point?
No offense meant, but with two first round picks, are they really ready just to draft for depth?
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by Scott Schroeder on Jun 16, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Think of it as
Stockpiling Talent as opposed to Depth.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 16, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think so
If you don’t take Thabeet at #3, there’s not really another premier Center in the first round, in my opinion. So, you take a SG at #3 and then anyone else would be a back up to Westbrook, Green or Durant.
by ElectricPencils on Jun 16, 2009 12:38 PM CDT reply actions
Then snag the bigman
w/trade or free agency. I forgot Budinger can play the 3, so he could back up Durant as well.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
Exactly
So after that first pick, we’re drafting for depth.
I don’t know if I’m sold on Budinger. I think after the top few picks, it really is just a crap shoot.
by ElectricPencils on Jun 16, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
My choices
Tier 2 – Thabeet
Tier 3 – T. Evans
Tier 4 – Austin Daye
Tier 5 – Chase Budinger
Least appealing:
Tier 3 – Jordan Hill
Tier 4 – BJ Mullens
Tier 5 – D Blair
My Choices
Tier 1 – Blake Griffin
Tier 2 – James Harden
Tier 3 – Stephen Curry
Tier 4 – DeMar Derozan
Tier 5 – Ty Lawson
Least Appealing:
Tier 2 – Ricky Rubio
Tier 3 – Jordan Hill
Tier 4 – Austin Daye
Tier 5 – Dejaun Summers
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 16, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Not only is Brandon J...
dissing Rubio, but Mr. P is dropping the boy some grief as well.
Personally, I’m not sold on Thabeet or Rubio.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
Its a toss up between
Thabeet and Rubio. I’d honestly be ecstatic to have either of these guys. Right now I just rank the tier 2 guys as Harden, Thabeet, then Rubio. I’d more like to see us dangle Rubio and see if anybody bites should he be available.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 16, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Dems a lot of votes for the lack comments we have here. Just sayin’.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
Do you think we need to bust out the Lurker post?
Attention Lurkers: Members Get All The Benefits… Why Don’t You?
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 16, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Clicky Clicky Folks.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 16, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you pimp now?
because “Clicky Clicky Folks” is not a creepy or anything. Hey……..wait a minute!!! Weren’t you that guy trying to sell me the “brand new Rolex” in the parking garage the other night?
Aren't you the idiot...
that jacked all my fake Rolex’ and then got hit by a car trying to run away?
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 16, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Totally Justified
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 16, 2009 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd grab Dionte Christmas
maybe I like Temple too much, but I think he’s going to be a very valuable bench player for many years at a cheap price
Nobody expects a Spanish Acquisition!
Agreed...
he’s my sleeper 2 gaurd pick. He’s got nice length, shooting touch, and athleticism. He could stick in this league.
Harden or Thabeet, then pick...
If we draft Harden at #3: I think we have to go big & I like DeJuan Blair. According to Loud Links article, OKC & Portland both would try to move up to get him. We know Harden locks up SG spot & Blair’s toughness will help shed our “soft” image in the paint.
If we draft Thabeet at #3: Obviously we need to address our SG needs which I believe is worthy of trading up for if need be to grab Terrence Williams. He’s got a NBA body, athleticism, good stroke (little streaky) but plays solid defense & is in passing lanes like Ariza. He’s been training with none other than the Glove too so need I say more.
Lastly, I think we could really get deep & set ourselves for the future by getting another 1st Rd pick…piggybacking MLeetch’s philosophy. All it would take is a little of our cap to help out someone like Charlotte (12), Detroit (15) or Atlanta (19); who all want to free up as much room as possible to either resign FA’s or lure one.
That could give us #3, #12/15/19 (one of them) & 24. Thinking Harden, Blair & Lawson. Picking proven college players that were strong leaders on their respective successful teams could build a winning mentality to our current core. Add FA Big for MLE+ in Gortat, Anderson, etc:
C: Gortat/Anderson, Kristic, Collsion
PF: Green, Blair, White
SF: Durant, Mason
SG: Harden, Thabo, Weaver
PG: Westbrook, Lawson, Livingston
Remembers when GP & the Reign Man were the best Duo in the NBA, hence the 4020...R.I.P. Seattle Supersonics & welcome Oklahoma City Thunder
Apparently, per the latest rumor mill
- We’re visiting with Hasheem Thabeet in LA right now
- Lots of action happening at #2. Teams that are reported to be in play for a trade with Memphis include Boston, Minnesota and the Knicks. Apparently the Minnesota GM wants to “make a big splash” in his first draft. Boston reportedly offered Kendrick Perkins and another player. Wouldn’t be surprised to see another team selecting at #2.
- The Thunder are high on Blair and he’s had good workouts lately. They may trade up to get him later in the first.
by dishingoutdimes on Jun 16, 2009 11:40 PM CDT reply actions
Because of the depth at guard...
I think we should definitely take a shot at Thabeet if he’s there at 3 because of all the guards that will be available throughout the first round. Harden is such a nice fit though I hate not taking him. I don’t envy Mr Presti.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 17, 2009 6:37 AM CDT up reply actions
back & forth
I’ve been going from Thabeet to Harden & back. I love Harden & it seems he would be the perfect fit but if Thabeets there, wow, can we afford to pass? It’ll be much easier to get a SG FA than a C FA or trade for a SG, like Rip Hamilton for example.
Hopefully Memphis takes Thabeet (much like Portland did with Oden) so our decision is a no-brainer with Harden…then there’s nothing to regret.
Remembers when GP & the Reign Man were the best Duo in the NBA, hence the 4020...R.I.P. Seattle Supersonics & welcome Oklahoma City Thunder
I have a lot of the same feelings on the matter.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Presti will pull off a trade that will blow our hair back. I don’t know why, I just have a gut feeling we’re trading down and adding some talent from another team as well as a rookie.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 17, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
2007 Major trade for Jeff Green.
2008 Minor trade for D. J. White.
For 2009, I have a feeling he will keep the #3 pick and find someway to deal the 25th pick with a trade.
Also Known as "4D" one step beyond 3D
Funny you brought up Oden
because I’m afraid that’s what Thabeet will turn into.
I say we play two forwards and three guards. Or three forwards and two guards.
I mean, really, who needs a true center?
Yeah, yeah, I know. Just the teams that want to win.
I still don’t like Thabeet.
by ElectricPencils on Jun 17, 2009 11:39 AM CDT reply actions
The Jury isn’t out yet on Oden. Still in deliberation.
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on Jun 17, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
This jury has not only returned a verdict
but the judge isn’t hearing appeals.
He’s injury prone. He was injury prone in his one year in college. Those knees will be shot completely in a year or two.
And don’t get me started questioning his desire. That’s the thing about a lot of big men, (including Thabeet), they don’t play basketball because they love it, they play because they’re tall. Being tall doesn’t really make you a great basketball player. I don’t think Oden will ever be that good.
by ElectricPencils on Jun 17, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
haha
My fiance always says Oden looks like his in his 50s.
by ElectricPencils on Jun 18, 2009 8:26 AM CDT reply actions

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