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2009 NBA Draft Lottery Coverage: History of the Pre-Lottery #4 Position

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The 2009 NBA Draft Lottery is now officially less than a week away, and as it gets closer, I thought it might be interesting to take a look at the history of teams sitting in our current position heading into the lottery. Meaning, where did teams with the 4th worst record end up after the draft lottery? Now, its not exactly easy to find this information, or at least it wasn't for me, so I had to do a little research and match up season by season records with draft selections to figure out where teams ended up in the lottery. There were a few that were a bit tougher than you might expect to figure out because of record ties / pre-draft trades of certain teams #1 picks in various years. Anyway, on the jump page you can see where the pre-lotto #4 position team ended up after the lottery going back 15 seasons.

If you're still holding out hope for the #1 draft spot and Blake Griffin, please don't hold you're breath as it has only happened one time in the past 15 years for the #4 position team, and oddly enough, that was 15 years ago, and has not happened since. More bad news is that in a draft that is widely regarded as weak overall with a dropoff after the first two selections is that more than 1/3 of the time, the pre-draft #4 wound up with the #3 choice after the Lottery. While that is good news, and an improvement over current position of 4th, Thunder fans are desperately hoping for at the very least a top 2 position, and a chance at the hometown boy Blake Griffin.

Star-divide

Looking over the list below, there are plenty of reasons not to get discouraged even if we end up with the 5th overall pick as notable players such as Dwyane Wade and Ray Allen were #5 overall picks from teams holding the #4 pre-lottery position. I don't think anyone is going to argue too much if we end up with the #5 choice and the player turns out to be the caliber of either of those two guys. Of course if we ended up at #5 and chose a player who ended up like either Nickoloz Tskitishvili or Jonathon Bender (no longer in the NBA), well, I don't think anyone is going to be too happy about that.

I realize its listed below, but in case you don't want to take the time to count them up, in the last 15 years the pre-lottery 4th position team has ended up with the 1st pick 1 time, the 2nd pick 2 times, the 3rd pick 6 times, the 4th pick once, and the 5th pick 5 times. So not only does the 4th position team end up with the 3rd pick more than 1/3 of the time as we mentioned earlier, it also ends up with the 5th overall pick, exactly 1/3 of the time as well. So I guess one could deduce that we have about a 73% chance of either ending up 3rd or 5th after next Tuesday's NBA Draft Lottery (May 19, 9:30pm Local), if history has anything to say about the matter.

So that "Worst Case Scenario" post we made yesterday hasn't happened in the last 15 years, and probably hasn't ever happened, but I can't say for sure because I only went back the 15 years. Hey sorry, there is only so much time in the day! In fact, not only has the 4th position team never ended up with the worst case scenario of picking #7 overall, but they also never ended up picking #6 overall either (again, in the past 15 years). So one thing you SHOULD (I emphasize "should" for a reason) be able to bank on is the Oklahoma City Thunder winding up with at the very worst, a top five position in Junes Draft.

Pre-Lottery 4th Position Draft Spots and Selections

[Note by Mr Pappagiorgio, 05/13/09 8:59 PM CDT ]
Found an NBA Media Release and Corrected the List.

2008 5th (Kevin Love)                                 ...not 3rd (O.J. Mayo)
2007 3rd (Al Horford)
2006 5th (Sheldon Williams)                    ...not 3rd (Adam Morrison)
2005 3rd (Deron Williams)
2004 2nd (Emeka Okafor)                        ...not 4th (Shaun Livingston)
2003 5th (Dwyane Wade)
2002 5th (Nickoloz Tskitishvili)
2001 6th (Shane Battier)                         ...not 3rd (Pau Gasol)
2000 2nd (Stromile Swift)
1999 5th (Jonathon Bender)
1998 5th (Vince Carter)                          ...not 2nd (Mike Bibby)
1997 5th (Tony Battie)
1996 4th (Stephon Marbury)                   ...not 5th (Ray Allen)
1995 3rd (Jerry Stackhouse)
1994 1st (Glenn Robinson)

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2 more things I forgot to mention...

The last 4 years in a row the 4th position team ended up with the 3rd overall pick.

….and the guy who was picked 4th overall the year before those 4 consecutive years was Shaun Livingston.

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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 13, 2009 5:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Interesting that they've only got the #1 pick

once, way back in 1994. Good stuff. Hopefully that means we’re due for a 4th slot to get the 1st pick!

Crimson and Cream Machine
Baseball season = Go Brew Crew!

by dishingoutdimes on May 13, 2009 8:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Perhaps this latest 15 year cycle will repeat itself, which means the first year of the next 15 year cycle begins this year giving us the number one pick!

…LMAO, funny how we find ways to think we’re going to end up with the top pick.

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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 13, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Seems to be guard dominated

a sign, or just a coincidence?

True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on May 13, 2009 8:43 AM CDT reply actions  

It's probably more of a trend in the NBA

Than anything else. Top pick or two usually gets that seasons top big man talent out of the way and then the wave of guards follow.
…honestly though before this year I didn’t follow the draft this closely, so that’s really just speculation on my part.

-This comment brought to you by Mr Pappagiorgio aka Mister P
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 13, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just pray Thabeet will be there at #4...

Do you guys think LAC will draft Thabeet?

I assume Washington will draft Rubio and that Blake will go to the Kings.

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 13, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Top pick or two usually gets that seasons top big man talent out of the way and then the wave of guards follow.

Very true. Productive guards tend to come in many varieties and are much more plentiful than big men. You’ll often find good guards on the free agent market every year, but a big man doesn’t come along very often.

That being said, I wouldn’t expect the Thunder to miss the target this much on big men in the 1st round. Law of averages tends to dictate that they’ll find one if they keep drafting them enough. Then again, you don’t want to fall into the Detroit Lions’ mistake of keep drafting one position.

I say take the BPA. Once we see the lottery order, we’ll be able to make some predictions about who may fall to us.

Crimson and Cream Machine
Baseball season = Go Brew Crew!

by dishingoutdimes on May 13, 2009 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Once the lottery

Determines the draft order, the real speculation and fun begins!

-This comment brought to you by Mr Pappagiorgio aka Mister P
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 13, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Thabeet isn't there; who would you like OKC to draft?

 
I see a bunch of point guards in the draft like Johnnie Flynn, Ty Lawson, etc…

I also like the following players but maybe not with the 4th pick; Duke’s Henderson, Pitts DeJuan Blair and Davidson’s Stephen Curry…

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 13, 2009 9:21 AM CDT reply actions  

If we end up at #4 with Blake and Griffin gone but Thabeet still on the board, he will be our pick.

-This comment brought to you by Mr Pappagiorgio aka Mister P
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 13, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would be really happy with...

Blake Griffin, Hasheem Thabeet, Ricky Rubio or Brandon Jennings.

Beyond that I get a little skeptical. I don’t know if Stephen Curry has the size or strength to succeed at the NBA level beyond being a spot shooter. James Harden seems like a John Salmons guy, someone who will disappear about 60-65% of the time, but then suddenly show up and start raining in shots. Harden and Salmons are also the type of player who most likely won’t be blowing right by you.

Jordan Hill I think will wind up being an energy guy who is more of a rebounder than anything (see Anderson Varejao). DeMar Derozan and Tyreke Evans fit the same mold of a high flyer who won’t really have a great shot, but they’re long and can play above the rim.

If the 4 guys I listed are gone, I would go after a shooting guard since that’s what this team needs. If they don’t like any one of them in particular (and I really don’t), I think they should trade down to about 9 or 10 and pick Ty Lawson, who I think could be a great point guard.

Crimson and Cream Machine
Baseball season = Go Brew Crew!

by dishingoutdimes on May 13, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for all the knowledge

You’ve been dropping over here lately, it’s nice to have input from someone who has more info about the college game and players than I do.

You’re assessment on the players we should take and the order is pretty spot on to what I think as well, although I’d also take a hard look at Hill before trading down for Lawson, although I do think he’d fit the bill for the Thunder at the point.

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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 13, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice list

Great research. Seven all-stars and two guys on the way, three possible HOF’ers, not to shabby.

by rickpidero on May 13, 2009 11:22 AM CDT reply actions  

…few clunkers in there as well, overall though, you gotta feel pretty optimistic.

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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 13, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mr P

Here’s what I can’t figure out. Why do the Thunder greatly need Griffin with Durant & Green at bofh F positions already?

Seems to me they would be far more interested in trading down then any other team. That’s my personal opinion.

Let’s say for the sake of argument that the Thunder finished 2nd in the draft. It’s easy for me to see them trade down and get an asset they like rather than take Ricky Rubio in that slot (assuming Blake Griffin goes first which is not erroneous at this point).

I just dont’ think Blake Griffin is a real fit in OKC.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 13, 2009 5:23 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't think they greatly need Griffin...

Fans Greatly want Griffin. He’s a hometown boy, the best guy in the draft, and in general, dude is a stud. There are no negatives to drafting him except for figuring out what to do with Green, and if that is to happen, I’m sure Presti already has something in mind.

I also don’t see any reason to trade down at all in this draft, even in the worst case scenario of drafting 7th, I suggested taking Ty Lawson as opposed to trading down. At every pick 1-7, I think we can find somebody that will help this team in one form or another.

….also if we are #2 with Griffin gone, we’d be stupid not to take Rubio.

-This comment brought to you by Mr Pappagiorgio aka Mister P
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 13, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

How good is Green

I mean, maybe I’m wrong in thinking this, but do they move Green if they land Griffin? Or just put him on the bench? (And would a move to the bench piss him off?)

Again, haven’t followed the team much… how good is Green? What would be an acceptable return for him if he were to be traded? (I know, I know… I should go read your EOS on him for the first part. No worries, I’m headed there right now)

True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on May 14, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, now that I've read that

how is his defense at the 3-spot (compared to your normal SF)?

True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on May 14, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would make assume Blake is out of the picture unless we win the lottery.

I would love to see Thabeet, Green, and Durant running the 3, 4, and 5…

Lawson at point with Westbrook at the 2 doesn’t sound too bad either!

"Where's the beef?"

by MMunoz33 on May 14, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Furthermore, trading down

Would only make sense if the team receives equal value in return. Given that the top two picks are better bets for success (at this time), the return can’t just be some lower pick — it would have to be an actual piece that adds to the team.

If the Thunder end up with #2 they almost HAVE to pick Rubio — what “asset” would they like better than Rubio? Jennings? Harden? Thabeet? Nobody in their right mind would do a straight trade of those, so commensurate value would have to be exchanged for that to make sense. So yes, if something comes along that just blows the FO’s socks off, they might pull the trigger on such a deal, but otherwise I wouldn’t bet on it.

Griffin makes sense because you can also play him for small amounts of time at C if necessary, or rotate him with Green at F. There’s no point in NOT drafting the consensus best player just because you have players already in those spots. Hence, the BPA strategy ;)

by manifestus on May 13, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would think with Griffin

You could play him at SF moreso than C. He does have the athleticism to do that. I’m not sold on Griffin myself, but I remain a minority there.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 15, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

You mean power forward?

-This comment brought to you by Mr Pappagiorgio aka Mister P
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 15, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he means SF

Blogging at RidiculousUpside, where we converse with recently fired mascots.

by Scott Schroeder on May 15, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

No I don't think so.

He was talking about rotate with Green at F, and Green plays the 4.

-This comment brought to you by Mr Pappagiorgio aka Mister P
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 16, 2009 4:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Blake

Would be a better small forward than center.

Blogging at RidiculousUpside, where we converse with recently fired mascots.

by Scott Schroeder on May 18, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

small forward?

Seriously, you’re out of your mind.

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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 19, 2009 5:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

?

I don’t see Blake playing center too often. I do think he is athletic enough to play SF on occasion, but he should stick to the 4.

by daddydai on May 19, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Updated List...

So some of my numbers and such in this post are a little off now since I found an official NBA Press release regarding these details. List has been updated and should be 100% accurate now.

Sorry for the mistakes.

-This comment brought to you by Mr Pappagiorgio aka Mister P
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 13, 2009 8:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Mr P

DX also has a history on it’s site.

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 15, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ya...

after I posted this, I got the official Listing from the NBA. So I updated above.

-This comment brought to you by Mr Pappagiorgio aka Mister P
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by Mr Pappagiorgio on May 15, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

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